What developer for what

[wogster]

Is there a comprehensive list of what developers do what, for example use DeveloperX for this and DeveloperY for that?

 

[Ian Grant]

Not really, there are list but unless you understand them they aren't useful. But every manufacturer gives data about their own film/paper/developer combinations. You could look at the Ilford website. They have good basic information to help you get started. Look under Applications.

Then look at the Product information Data sheets.

Ian

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I'd like to be a rebel and state that it's likely better to learn how to control one developer, maybe two, to tweak the use of that developer to get the results to fit a certain situation.
I like the regimen of semistand development using dilute developers. Rodinal, HC-110, and Pyrocat work great for this. My favorite used to be Pyrocat and Tri-X. I could tweak the development to affect the midtones greatly to the way I wanted them. Highlight control is superb with this developer, beautifully held back, and when you let the developer sit for 3-5 minutes between agitations, shadow values developer very nicely. By changing your agitation intervals, you change the densities in your midtones a lot.
Then you can also make great tonal changes by overexposing and underexposing and changing your development times accordingly.

But I agree it would be helpful to have some sort of comprehensive list that states the strengths of most developers. The massive development chart is a little dull that way, but it's a good tool to help you get started.

- Thomas

 

[Mackinaw]

Is there a comprehensive list of what developers do what, for example use DeveloperX for this and DeveloperY for that?

This won't answer your question, but will give you an idea of what films can be developed in what developers. The combinations can be mind boggling:

http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html

 

[Lee L]

You don't say what your experience level is, so it's a bit hard to make recommendations. Two books that concentrate on an overview of the information you're interested in:

The Darkroom Cookbook, Steve Anchell

The Film Developing Cookbook, Stephen Anchell & Bill Troop

Experience with a few types of developers about which they write is helpful (probably necessary) in more fully understanding their explanations and comparisons among different developer and film combinations. But they are excellent reference books and very useful, and have explanations about different general types of developers and their characteristics.

If you have questions about, or requests for suggestions for certain combinations based on specific kinds of results you want to see, then ask here on APUG. You'll see a minimum of 24 options on ways to get the results you want, and about the same number of suggestions that you should want to do something different.

Lee

 

[Ian Grant]

The Darkroom Cookbook, Steve Anchell, is now out in it's 3rd Edition it's a better general purpose book on processing than the Film Developing Cookbook.

It's worth mentioning that the contributions from other photographers, many are also APUG members, gives it greater balance and depth compared to the 1st & 2nd Editions. Sandy King, Les McLean, Patrick (Gadget) Gainer, John Sexton, Tim Rudman etc all write short pieces.

Ian

 

[jim appleyard]

And a good rule of thumb, "when in doubt, use D-76". D-76 is the standard by which other devs are judged and *MOST* ( I really can't think of an exception, but someone here will ) films can be processed to make very good negs in D-76. Most developer companies make a D-76 equivilent; Ilford's is ID-11; same thing.

 

[Lee L]

D-76 is the standard by which other devs are judged and *MOST* ( I really can't think of an exception, but someone here will ) films can be processed to make very good negs in D-76.

This also makes D-76 an excellent developer to know well, as it's the basis for so many written comparisons against other developers under test.

Lee

 

[tinyfailures]

I think dilution and time matter more than chemical choice. I understand how staunch support for certain developers are valid but you can often tweak a given developer to achieve certain effects. Want more tonal range and less contrast? Dilute whatever you have. Want more contrast and more grain? Use stock or choose a paper developer for less time. Basically, if you look at the charts and get an idea of the developer speed/strength, you can work your way into a wide range of results.

 

[Lee L]

I think dilution and time matter more than chemical choice. <snip>

... and agitation. The Spanish Inquisition has three main weapons...


Lee

 

[jovo]

Is there a comprehensive list of what developers do what, for example use DeveloperX for this and DeveloperY for that?

A lot depends on how, and on what you intend to make a print. There is a big difference between negatives that are best suited to alt processes, and those to be made on graded or variable contrast paper, or by contact or enlargement. The developer you choose should be well suited to the eventual print. Since you've not specified any particular outcome, it's hard to offer a suggestion.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Hello tinyfailures. I'd like to make some comments...

I think dilution and time matter more than chemical choice.

Agreed! Developers can give different results with different dilutions. A film - dev combination can give different characteristic curves for different dilutions. If you change time you also get different contrast.

Want more tonal range and less contrast? Dilute whatever you have. Want more contrast and more grain? Use stock or choose a paper developer for less time.

I disagree with your statement about grain. I don't know if some developers act like that in a more dilute form, but others don't. Take D76 and XTOL for example. The documentation provided by the manufacturer clearly states that graininess increases with dilution:

You can dilute XTOL Developer 1:1 with water (developer:water) for one-shot (single-use) processing. Dilution at 1:1 will provide slightly greater film speed, enhanced sharpness and shadow detail, and slightly more grain.

KODAK PROFESSIONAL D-76 Developer provides full emulsion speed and excellent shadow detail with normal contrast, and produces fine grain with a variety of continuous-tone black-and-white films. For greater sharpness, but with a slight increase in graininess, you can use a 1:1 dilution of this developer.

IIRC, I had seen somewhere that sodium sulfite (present in both of them) concentration affects grain. Higher concentrations "solve" grain clumps, reducing graininess and sharpness. Diluting the developer reduces concentration and results in higher sharpness and graininess. The truth is, I don't know for sure if that is correct and I'd like to see a definitive answer.

 

[mabman]

... and agitation. The Spanish Inquisition has three main weapons...


Lee

...and temperature.

Four! Four main weapons!

(We might have to break out the soft cushions soon...)

 

[Ian Grant]

and not forgetting the fith weapon - Knowledge.

Ian

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

How about a sixth weapon - ability to bring it all together and have a process that actually have results that come to fruition.

OK. Pillow fight it is... One line - it's more important how you use your tools than which tools you're using. Really.

 

[jim appleyard]

Funny, I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition, but then no one does!

 

[Anscojohn]

Wogster,
Advice about getting one and only one film/developer combination and learning it thoroughly is dull, unadventurous, and old-fashioned sounding, but IMHO it is the only way to go if one wishes to become an adept, a person who comes to "seeing photographically" rather than someone who likes to play around with developin' stuff.
When getting started, I can think of no better combo than Tri-X and D23. By the time you really find out what that pairing doesn't do so well, you shall then know what you need in order to move on.
Now I know there are Rodinal and Pyro enthusiasts out there: but consider D23 and DK-25R replenisher. Cheap, consistent, and so "forgiveable" it will save your a** when you make exposure mistakes. Outstanding shadow detail; wonderful mid-tones; "semi-compensating to keep from blocking up highlights.
Use it 1:1 for better sharpness, if you wish; 1:3 for extreme contrast control. Works great as a divided developer if you like to do that sort of thing. Used straight it can be an effective low contrast PAPER developer for fine tuning a print.
And dilute DK25R replenisher used to develop film is almost a clone of the Windisch metol formula.
Did I mention cheap......(vbg)

 

[JBrunner]

Weapon #7:

Consistent experience with a developer/film/paper combination.

No matter what anyone writes or says about a developer, it means nothing without a baseline. Pick a good standard developer, use it six ways to Sunday until it's your biotch.

When you can snatch the pebble, it will be time for you to leave.

 

[Seabird]

As others have said: learn one developer well and you'll be surprised at what it can do. For example: I've learnt that Rodinal can do almost anything. Here's the proof:

Want soccer ball sized grain? Use Rodinal with 110 film
Want no grain? Use Rodinal with 8x10 film or larger
Want lots of contrast? Rodinal 1+1 at 25 degrees C for 30mins with constant agitation
Want lots of delicate tonal gradation? Rodinal 1+100 semi-stand.
Want sharp? 5x4 T-Max 100 or FP4+ in Rodinal
Want soft? Vaseline on front lens element with Rodinal
Want to be able to use the same bottle of developer in 40yrs time? Rodinal

I could go on ....

(A note for the irony-challenged - this is a bit tongue-in-cheek)

Carey Bird
http://members.iinet.net.au/~cbird/index.html

 

[wogster]

Wogster,
Advice about getting one and only one film/developer combination and learning it thoroughly is dull, unadventurous, and old-fashioned sounding, but IMHO it is the only way to go if one wishes to become an adept, a person who comes to "seeing photographically" rather than someone who likes to play around with developin' stuff.
When getting started, I can think of no better combo than Tri-X and D23. By the time you really find out what that pairing doesn't do so well, you shall then know what you need in order to move on.
Now I know there are Rodinal and Pyro enthusiasts out there: but consider D23 and DK-25R replenisher. Cheap, consistent, and so "forgiveable" it will save your a** when you make exposure mistakes. Outstanding shadow detail; wonderful mid-tones; "semi-compensating to keep from blocking up highlights.
Use it 1:1 for better sharpness, if you wish; 1:3 for extreme contrast control. Works great as a divided developer if you like to do that sort of thing. Used straight it can be an effective low contrast PAPER developer for fine tuning a print.
And dilute DK25R replenisher used to develop film is almost a clone of the Windisch metol formula.
Did I mention cheap......(vbg)

I've had good luck in the past with ID11 and FP4/HP5/PanF, but I was out of the darkroom for about 25 years, and some stuff may have changed in that time. Probably go back to my old combination, at least for the foreseeable future.

 

[Brandon D.]

[...], and about the same number of suggestions that you should want to do something different.

Lee

Hey... it's what makes this message board stand out among the rest!

 

[tom_bw]

What I found useful was the book "Edge of Darkness" by Barry Thornton (around p86 for discussions of various categories of developers).

 

[wogster]

What I found useful was the book "Edge of Darkness" by Barry Thornton (around p86 for discussions of various categories of developers).

I'll have to see if I can find a copy of the book, the local library doesn't have it, and Indigo doesn't have it in stock.... They may be able to come up with used copies, but that's always a crap shoot

 

[dancqu]

Use it 1:1 for better sharpness, if you wish; 1:3 for extreme
contrast control. Used straight it can be an effective low
contrast PAPER developer for fine tuning a print.

D-23 used as a one shot works well at 1:7; solution volume
500ml. My times 16 minutes, 72 F, 16 rolls per liter stock
strength. That's for Across. Other film's times will vary.

It may also be used dilute as a paper developer.
Some papers may need a wee pinch of potassium bromide.
Although overly high with sulfite the addition of some sodium
carbonate will yield an Ansco 120/Beer's 1 type paper developer.
With the carbonate but with out the bromide you'll have a FX-1/
Beutler's type Film developer. D-23 is a high sulfite developer
used at low dilutions. At 1:7 it is a low sulfite developer. Dan

 

[jim appleyard]

I'll have to see if I can find a copy of the book, the local library doesn't have it, and Indigo doesn't have it in stock.... They may be able to come up with used copies, but that's always a crap shoot

Try ebay or its sister site, half.com.