What causes these stains?

It is possible that some of your papers are contaminated when bought?
(a bad batch?)

print stains

Hi,

Well... That's interesting. I'm glad to find someone else who has suffered this same problem and who is equally baffled as to what on earth is the cause.

Do you ever have these stains (very small) on the front of the prints? I too have these spots on the reverse of the print, but more recently have noticed them on the emulsion side very occasionally.

Having spoken with very experienced photographer friends I have these suggestions, although it should be noted that neither could be absolutely sure...

1) Do you have a hot water tank? I do and I have noticed that sometimes the water is a bit gritty and rusty. Oxidised iron is therefore a distinct possibility.

2) How are you washing your prints? If in a print washer, can you be sure that the prints are washed evenly and that they do not stick against the edges. I would suggest, if you don't already, to turn your prints every 15 mins during the final wash to ensure an even wash and then soaking them for several hours before a final brief rinse. Uneven washing could be the cause.

3) Is your fixer fresh?

Anyway, none of this, other than perhaps the 'iron deposit' possibility can explain to my satisfaction their (the yellow/orange spots) occurrence on only the back of the print...

I don't know either but it's obvious that something is going wrong somewhere. I'm going to do tests and see how well washed the prints on which the stains have occurred are with HT-2 solution. I'm going install a new thermostatically controlled water to ensure that washing conditions are optimum as well as, of course, ensuring that everything I do before prior to the wash is as methodical and fresh. Like you, I am scrupulous about cleanliness.

Have you found any other likely explanation for these? Actually, I'll email Ilford to see what they have to say about it. Are you using Ilford Multigrade FB?

Marco

I believe you are picking up some ****crap*** that is left in the washer or wash tray from overyly hard or soft (not sure which ) water or algea.
This scum can be cleaned off your trays / washer and I get it sometimes when the back end of the print picks it up off the plastic.

I do not think it is a contamination issue with your working methods other than just crap on trays.

I clean the wash trays and washer more often than the process trays.. for this very reason.
Usually it is just the fiber backing picking up tone from some crap left over in the tray that is not obvious to the eye.


Bob

NickG said:

Hi,

Well... That's interesting. I'm glad to find someone else who has suffered this same problem and who is equally baffled as to what on earth is the cause.

Do you ever have these stains (very small) on the front of the prints? I too have these spots on the reverse of the print, but more recently have noticed them on the emulsion side very occasionally.

Click to expand...

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the response. Yes, the small stains do occur almost exclusively on the back of the prints. But, since the stains aren't very strongly colored, and most of my recent prints are (partially) sepia toned, they may have gone unnoticed on the front side...

NickG said:

Hi,

1) Do you have a hot water tank? I do and I have noticed that sometimes the water is a bit gritty and rusty. Oxidised iron is therefore a distinct possibility.

Click to expand...

That's a good one Nick! Haven't thought of that yet, but yes, I do have a boiler! And in addition, I know the municipal water company each year cleans pipelines using highly pressurized water, and they do warn for stains on washed cloths in this period...

But I never thought of that in relation to my prints, and still am not sure, as I saw at least one of these stains more or less "bleach" away during sun light exposure while leaving it upside down on a table... Can't imagine that happening with some oxidized iron deposit...

NickG said:

3) Is your fixer fresh?

Click to expand...

Yes, it is, and I recently started using the two bath fixing method. Must admit I haven't noticed it since than, but I have also added HCA as extra measure...

NickG said:

Anyway, none of this, other than perhaps the 'iron deposit' possibility can explain to my satisfaction their (the yellow/orange spots) occurrence on only the back of the print...

I don't know either but it's obvious that something is going wrong somewhere. I'm going to do tests and see how well washed the prints on which the stains have occurred are with HT-2 solution. I'm going install a new thermostatically controlled water to ensure that washing conditions are optimum as well as, of course, ensuring that everything I do before prior to the wash is as methodical and fresh. Like you, I am scrupulous about cleanliness.

Have you found any other likely explanation for these? Actually, I'll email Ilford to see what they have to say about it. Are you using Ilford Multigrade FB?

Click to expand...

Let us all know here in this thread your results of the HT-2 test, I am curious to hear the results!

Bob Carnie said:

Marco

I believe you are picking up some ****crap*** that is left in the washer or wash tray from overyly hard or soft (not sure which ) water or algea.
This scum can be cleaned off your trays / washer and I get it sometimes when the back end of the print picks it up off the plastic.

I do not think it is a contamination issue with your working methods other than just crap on trays.

Click to expand...

Thanks Bob, there may be some truth in this, as I do not regularly clean the trays, but on the other hand, except a clearly visible silver deposit in the developer tray, there isn't any real sign of algal scum on them. They look pretty clean. I do rinse them after each usage.

Marco

If you recently started to use two bath fixing and a washing aid on fiber based prints, I would venture that the effectiveness of your print fixing and washing would be the first thing to be looked at.

I don't think that soap matters when rinsing the chemicals off your hand, just sufficient clean water.

CBG said:

If you recently started to use two bath fixing and a washing aid on fiber based prints, I would venture that the effectiveness of your print fixing and washing would be the first thing to be looked at.

Click to expand...

I use the method of replacing the water in the tray about 7 times over a period of about 1.5 hour and shaking the tray a few times in between. Most of what I read here on APUG suggests this should be quite sufficient and not worse than continuous flow washing, but using HCA now is definitely not a bad thing.

Unfortunately, I still haven't managed to lay my hands on one of these residual hypo tests, as they are kind of hard to find nowadays. Actually, I don't think there is any shop left here in the Netherlands who has it (except well past it's date left-over stock)

Marco B said:

I use the method of replacing the water in the tray about 7 times over a period of about 1.5 hour and shaking the tray a few times in between. ...

Click to expand...

Is that a tray with just one print in it, and with a lot of water in it? If there are multiple prints, the need for agitation goes up greatly since prints that are touching are not diffusing hypo away. You need fresh water in contact with all the print to keep diffusion active. Also, with only seven changes for water, I would want to see quite a bit of water per print. The more water, the less need for constant agitation, given enough time.