What can cause this mottling?

Grim Tuesday · May 12, 2021

I recently had a roll developed by a store and when scanning it in obviously something went wrong. The film was Portra 800, expired, and I store it in the freezer (provenance before it reached me not guaranteed, but other rolls from this batch have been fine). Can this be caused by:

1. Bad developing? The store did tell me that their minilab broke the day after I dropped off my film and delayed return of my negatives by about a week. None of my other rolls were affected by this (so far, I am still scanning them in) but I suppose some could have been processed before and some after.

2. Expired film? This is possible, but another roll from this exact same batch and provenance does not have this issue. It was shot about a month before this one, though I don't remember if I unfroze them a few months apart. Both are only expired by a about three years, though I know higher ISOs age worse.

3. Improper unfreezing? It is possible I did not unfreeze this roll properly and some condensation reached it. This is my most likely scenario, but I am looking for input.

Here is the image: https://ibb.co/XYzPR4Y

koraks · May 12, 2021

120 format? Looks like it could be backing paper imprint. Might also be a moisture/condensation issue.

Grim Tuesday · May 12, 2021

Ah yes I should have said, 120. My first roll with a certo 6, a very sharp lens wasted on some ruined pictures!

Donald Qualls · May 12, 2021

That's a form of wrapper offset. I've seen it with 120 film that was stored out of the original airtight pouch (even if in an airtight aftermarket film can) or sheet film that sat in a film holder for a long time. As far as I can see (with other rolls from the same purchase, stored next to the problem roll, still good; only difference is still being in the foil/plastic pouch) it's moderated by humidity, which allows chemicals from the backing paper (or paint on the film holder septum?) to migrate into the touching emulsion (or base side layers?) and locally change film speed (in color film, possibly in only one or two of the three or four color layers).

I've also seen cases where condensation had a similar effect, without any contact, by (as far as I can tell) dissolving, carrying, and redepositing sensitizing dyes.

Lesson to take from this: as much as possible, be sure roll film (especially) is stored in the original airtight pouches. If the pouch is opened, use the film as soon as practical. If still airtight, even at room temperature, films are likely good for a couple decades past their printed expiration date.

Grim Tuesday · May 12, 2021

Donald, you are quite correct that this film was stored outside the pouches. I bought it that way but thought I could preserve it by putting it into freezer bags. Guess not, hopefully this is more of a problem with the portra 800 than the other stocks because I have like 60 rolls that are like this between 400H, portra 400 and portra 800.

Edit: to be more clear, all film from this purchase was outside the wrapper. This one was shot a month before the other one that was fine, so I don't think condensation in the freezer "got to it" Though it's possible this one spent some time outside the freezer on the order of months before I shot it. I've never been burned before so I'm pretty bad with my film storage practices. I guess it's time to clean up...

Donald Qualls · May 12, 2021

I have a limited sample size to extrapolate from, but I'm inclined to expect that the longer the film was stored with access to the environment, and the more humid the conditions, the greater the likelihood of this kind of problem. I live in humid North Carolina, and the roll I referred to above was in room temperature (air conditioned and heated, but not dehumidified) conditions for more than a decade (I had unwrapped it to get a better fit in the 120 film can, intending to use it "soon", and then additional people moved into my house and my darkroom was closed down because they needed the bathroom).

For film still in the freezer, it wouldn't hurt to open the bags long enough to add a few packets of dessicant to each and then return them to the freezer while still cold. It won't undo damage already done, but it might help preserve whatever condition you have.

AgX · May 12, 2021

koraks said:
120 format? Looks like it could be backing paper imprint. Might also be a moisture/condensation issue.

It does not look at all as the rather regular mottling caused by paper interaction. Furthermore it is not colour-neutral, but got an orange hue. there even is a yellow splotch.

pbromaghin · May 12, 2021

All of the paper imprint problems I recall seeing had numbers, arrows or lines that were easily recognizable as coming from the paper. This looks like old film, poorly stored.

MattKing · May 12, 2021

pbromaghin said:
All of the paper imprint problems I recall seeing had numbers, arrows or lines that were easily recognizable as coming from the paper. This looks like old film, poorly stored.

Those are examples of wrapper offset where it is the ink on the paper that is affected.
There is a whole separate subset of wrapper offset issues where the ink on the backing paper isn't affected, but the paper itself is.

AgX · May 12, 2021

pbromaghin said:
All of the paper imprint problems I recall seeing had numbers, arrows or lines that were easily recognizable as coming from the paper. This looks like old film, poorly stored.

There are basically two kind of backing paper problems:
-) mottling of the image due to the emulsion in contact with the plain paper in extreme humid storing conditions (This is the classis one, though recently such effect has been seen under normal storing conditions too, the reason still unclear)
-) transfer of the text printed on the backing paper (this also is a new effect).

foc · May 13, 2021

pbromaghin said:
All of the paper imprint problems I recall seeing had numbers, arrows or lines that were easily recognizable as coming from the paper. This looks like old film, poorly stored.

Yes, I agree. I have seen this, the yellow mottling, many times on 35mm film that was old and poorly stored.
Personally, I don't think it is a backing paper offset problem.

Grim Tuesday · May 14, 2021

I just scanned in another roll and found it there as well. A different film stock - portra 400 - but similar storage conditions. Oddly a different portra 400 from the same stock, shot last of all (by an order of months, the two with the problem were shot 6 and 8 months ago, while the one shot 1 month ago did not exhibit this problem. Very curious. I guess the question remains, is there any chance this could be caused in development? I guess either way any unwrapped film from my stash is pretty hard to trust now. I should probably sell it off to someone who likes the risk of their photos turning out "LOMO" and use the funds to buy (less) film that I can trust again. A truly sad day for my freezer.

foc · May 15, 2021

Grim Tuesday said:
is there any chance this could be caused in development?

I have never seen this effect caused by processing. Usually, if there is a processing problem it is caused by chemical or film handling.
A chemical issue would cause the whole negative to change colour and/or density. A handling issue would be something like scratches on the film.

I am afraid it appears to be poor storage/old film problem.
Personally, I wouldn't store film in the freezer, even expired film. If you do wish to cold store film just put it in the fridge (3 to 4 C).

Donald Qualls · May 17, 2021

foc said:
Personally, I wouldn't store film in the freezer, even expired film. If you do wish to cold store film just put it in the fridge (3 to 4 C).

There is considerable difference of opinion on this, but if you do put film in the freezer, make sure it's in airtight packaging and stays airtight until it's all the way back up to room temperature (condensation is BAD).

What can cause this mottling?

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What can cause this mottling?

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