What Cameras Can, and Should, Be Brought Back into Production?

NortheastPhotographic · Jun 3, 2020

Let's say you're G̶o̶d̶ Jeff Bezos. What cameras could and should realistically be brought back into production since digital is dead?

I'll start.

Obvious ones:

The Nikon FM3a. They still make the AIS lenses and the F6. There is plenty a market for them. They'd sell every unit they produce, and have parts!
The Fuji GF670. This camera was CHEAP! People complained about the price at the time but that $1800 price point looks good now when used ones go for $2500-3000+. It's the perfect 120 travel/reportage camera.
Bessa R2A/M. It's just weird that CV stopped making cameras. There is clearly a market for cheap rangefinders and the high price of used Bessas only proves that. They probably don't need 6 models like the old days, but one couldn't hurt.
Contax 645AF. This camera has cult status among wedding and other pros. I desperately needed a version 2 with good AF, but that was likely possible if you look at how good the AF is on the H1. They could be $10k for a kit and they'd sell every one they make.

Less obvious:

The Pentax LX. Same reason as the FM3a, except that Pentax is basically a dying camera brand. A film camera for their excellent FA Limits and vast collection of manual lenses would be a killer proposition for film shooters wanting something a little different.
The Pentax 67II. Same reasons for brand purposes, but also simply because the 67II is amazing. If they can roll 645Zs off the line they can make 500 67IIs a year.

Not gonna happen even in my fantasy land but would be epic:

The Rolleiflex FX-N. Guh even if I WANTED to find one of these, it's impossible used. Dream camera.

Les Sarile · Jun 3, 2020

They should definitely bring back the Kodak Ektar -> https://www.cameraquest.com/ektra.htm just so I can shoot a roll of Kodak Ektar 100 in it!

samcomet · Jun 3, 2020

Although really heavy, I would nominate the Yashica Elecrtro 35 for its cool logo and decidedly retro un pc advertising. It is still a goto camera for me these days:

Two23 · Jun 3, 2020

E&HT Anthony stereo view camera, 5x8.

Kent in SD

Donald Qualls · Jun 3, 2020

Realistically? Cameras that might, possibly, be possible to produce and sell at, if not a profit, at least break-even price, and aren't large format wood field cameras?

A modern, carbon fiber (or glass reinforced 3D printed) version of the Kodak Pony 135, perhaps crossed with the Bantam RF. 35mm film, small, lightweight, fixed lens with a basic shutter (could be a slide shutter with electronic control, for cost reasons, even though I'd much prefer a camera that doesn't require a battery -- and I think a mechanical slide shutter, perhaps using a dashpot delay, could be built with speeds B and 1/10 to 1/200 for barely above box camera costs). Coupled RF would be very nice. Put, say, a 40-45 mm f/2.8 Tessar type lens on it.

If you could expect to sell enough for mass production, these could potentially sell for a couple hundred bucks, and would do everything a photography student is likely to need in their first year.

Les Sarile · Jun 3, 2020

samcomet said:
Although really heavy, I would nominate the Yashica Elecrtro 35 for its cool logo and decidedly retro un pc advertising. It is still a goto camera for me these days:

Exactly my thoughts on my Yashica TL Electro X with two Atomic Energy Commission logos on it . . .

And of course those vintage ads!

Paul Howell · Jun 3, 2020

Pentax Spotmatic, no high end electronics, maybe updated with metal shutter and higher flash syn, hot shoe, other option, F100, it is well withing Nikon ability make, might update the AF, metering, to take new AF E lens. Canon EOS 3 or 7, again update the AF and metering. As the Minolta MD mount is no longer covered by patents, a new version of the 101 or 102.

voceumana · Jun 3, 2020

My understanding was the Pentax 67II line was discontinued because of some environmental concerns with certain production processes. This was probably the case with many other cameras. The manufacturers, I'm sure, evaluated the costs to revise their production processes and retooling against the demand and potential revenue. That's just how businesses evaluate these sorts of things. The return on investment probably didn't work in Pentax's favor.

The relatively low cost of film cameras when they were new was in large part because of high volume of sales. There is a very high cost to design and begin production on highly tooled products. Without demand, the product costs get so high there is little demand, and combine that with a shrinking market size, the products can no longer be profitable.

Lachlan Young · Jun 3, 2020

It all comes down to shutters.

Copal stopping shutter production seems to have been what killed off the voigtlander cameras. And it may be the same with the mechanical Rolleiflexes.

Solving the shutter problem is the biggest task. After that, the rest is relatively simpler.

Personally I'd like to see the Xpan/ TX-2 return. And the Nikon F (plain prism only). Or maybe an ultrawide version of the Fuji GF670W with either a 38 or 45mm optic & possibly more radical format switch options - a 21st century Hasselblad SWC meets Alpa/ Biogon sort of thing. I like the idea of 10-on 120 with choices of 55x69, 44x66, 24x66 for a 38mm on a switch, or 9-on with 56x76 and 36x72 for 45mm...

Kino · Jun 3, 2020

It's funny how often this subject comes up and how very predictably the suggestions are so radically different as to boggle the mind.

We are spoiled by the history of over a century of formats, design innovation and practical value that has been telescoped into the current used market.

To think this level of innovation and value can be produced for a fraction of the users that exist, and will exist in the near future, is pretty unrealistic IMHO.

People want too many options, every format possible and at a price below actual construction cost.

NortheastPhotographic · Jun 3, 2020

Lachlan Young said:
It all comes down to shutters.

Copal stopping shutter production seems to have been what killed off the voigtlander cameras. And it may be the same with the mechanical Rolleiflexes.

Solving the shutter problem is the biggest task. After that, the rest is relatively simpler.

Personally I'd like to see the Xpan/ TX-2 return. And the Nikon F (plain prism only). Or maybe an ultrawide version of the Fuji GF670W with either a 38 or 45mm optic & possibly more radical format switch options - a 21st century Hasselblad SWC meets Alpa/ Biogon sort of thing. I like the idea of 10-on 120 with choices of 55x69, 44x66, 24x66 for a 38mm on a switch, or 9-on with 56x76 and 36x72 for 45mm...

If Fuji/Hasselblad wanted to do something amazing yes, they could do a run of 5000 X-Pan cameras and I guarantee you they would sell every single unit. I'm not sure where they'd source the shutters so yes that must be the hardest part, but it would be a slam dunk. No R&D required, just make an XPan2 again. I'm sure Fuji, Cosina or Nittoh would make a couple new lenses if they wanted to update the line.

I would find the scratch to buy one for sure.

DW Photo says they lost many of the machines used to make the TLRs so they can't put them back into production unfortunately. I wonder who makes their shutter for the Hy6 lenses? I know it's a carbon fiber leaf shutter.

Kino · Jun 3, 2020

NortheastPhotographic said:
If Fuji/Hasselblad wanted to do something amazing yes, they could do a run of 5000 X-Pan cameras and I guarantee you they would sell every single unit. I'm not sure where they'd source the shutters so yes that must be the hardest part, but it would be a slam dunk. No R&D required, just make an XPan2 again. I'm sure Fuji, Cosina or Nittoh would make a couple new lenses if they wanted to update the line.

I would find the scratch to buy one for sure.

DW Photo says they lost many of the machines used to make the TLRs so they can't put them back into production unfortunately. I wonder who makes their shutter for the Hy6 lenses? I know it's a carbon fiber leaf shutter.

I'd bet the cost per unit that would pay for tooling, labor and production would be breathtaking to say the least.

Pieter12 · Jun 3, 2020

Realistically, none. The tooling, the supply chain, the market just aren't there any more. A new film camera would have to be a new film camera.

Lachlan Young · Jun 3, 2020

@NortheastPhotographic I'm pretty sure the shutter in the Xpan is like most current SLR/ DSLR camera shutters, apart from the length of the blades - like most modern cameras it's just a set of motors and actuators under the skin, so it's less reliant on complex mechanical sub-assemblies.

As for the HY6, I suspect that the guts of the shutter may be similar to some that their optical subcontractors offer, but that probably means it's made by a further third party who may be a surprisingly difficult to track down specialist operation in the depths of Germany (like Lumpp, who made various parts for Linhof and Foba tripods/ support systems over the decades, Bacht who make all the specialist flash heads like the fresnels & striplights etc for the top European brands, Gebr. Schreck who make most of the premium cable releases for Linhof etc - yes their name literally translates as the 'Fright Brothers', or the company that made the original 45 degree prism for Hasselblad - and Rollei, by the looks of it too) - there's a lot of low-key subcontracting in German industry that went (goes) on.

ic-racer · Jun 3, 2020

Electro..Electron...Orbiting Electrons...but Atomic Energy isn't based on electrons.

ic-racer · Jun 3, 2020

I think the Hy6 is mostly an electronic box with a mirror. The drive motor for the film is in the film back and the drive motors for the shutter, aperture and focus are in the lens. I'm in the market for one, so anyone that has one I'd like to know how you like it.

I think it is pretty clever. It is backwards compatible with every Rollei 6000/SLX lens. It is also backward compatible with celluloid based, metal/ion capture medium that comes on spools.

Paul Howell · Jun 3, 2020

Pieter12 said:
Realistically, none. The tooling, the supply chain, the market just aren't there any more. A new film camera would have to be a new film camera.

Your right, it could based on a legacy model, M42, K mount Minolta MD, or MF Nikon F, but would need new tooling, other than the F6, or last of the Leica M film bodies, I doubt if any maker kept the tools and dies for any of their film cameras.

Don't know what Cosina is doing, they seem to be in the best positon to bring back a film camera.

NortheastPhotographic · Jun 3, 2020

ic-racer said:
I think the Hy6 is mostly an electronic box with a mirror. The drive motor for the film is in the film back and the drive motors for the shutter, aperture and focus are in the lens. I'm in the market for one, so anyone that has one I'd like to know how you like it.

I think it is pretty clever. It is backwards compatible with every Rollei 6000/SLX lens. It is also backward compatible with celluloid based, metal/ion capture medium that comes on spools.

View attachment 247613

I use the Hy6 Mod 2 exclusively with film. It's a wonderful camera. The lenses are supurb, the AF is very usable, and the meter is trustworthy. I am lucky enough to have the 6x6 version.

mshchem · Jun 3, 2020

If you have billions. Don't bring any old design back, start fresh. I mean as long as we are in dreamland. Might be interesting to have a mirrorless Z mount film camera with EVF.

ic-racer · Jun 3, 2020

Since I only use 50mm (I'm a 'modern' Rolleiwide person) I wanted to source a 50mm AF before I looked for a camera. So I got the lens in the mail last week, now looking for a Mod 1 or Mod 2 and 6060 back.

NortheastPhotographic · Jun 3, 2020

ic-racer said:
Since I only use 50mm (I'm a 'modern' Rolleiwide person) I wanted to source a 50mm AF before I looked for a camera. So I got the lens in the mail last week, now looking for a Mod 1 or Mod 2 and 6060 back.

I have the 50/2.8 AFD, the 80 AFD, and the 180 PQ. They are all wonderful lenses. Some of the best I've used for any system, if not the best. The bodies are easy enough to source, but that 6060 back is hard to find. I got one on consignment as part of a kit with a Mod 2 body. I was only looking for the back for a Mod 1 I had, but it was a package deal. Turned out it was worth it! The Mod 2 is a very nice upgrade.

MattKing · Jun 3, 2020

A Mamiya 645 Pro with a rotating back - an RB645?

MartinCrabtree · Jun 3, 2020

The F5.

ts1000 · Jun 4, 2020

There is, a, perhaps related, conversation topic is going on

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...-film-photography.175203/page-10#post-2287568

Basically the OP made 2 assertions (in the video)
a) there is a revival of interest in film photography
b) the parts supplying is dwindling and repair cost (partially due to this) are going up. At the same time no new affordable (portable) film bodies are being made

With the above (assuming that is true), and despite the new interest -- film manufactures will soon stop making film.

So folks on that thread were coming up with different ideas/suggestions of what type of camera would need to be make to support the revival, assuming that the new bodies would not be built by the established Nikon/Canon.

In that context, folks were thinking that Kiev cameras (both 35mm and medium format) with m42 mount would be a good start...

Huss · Jun 4, 2020

Kino said:
It's funny how often this subject comes up and how very predictably the suggestions are so radically different as to boggle the mind.

We are spoiled by the history of over a century of formats, design innovation and practical value that has been telescoped into the current used market.

To think this level of innovation and value can be produced for a fraction of the users that exist, and will exist in the near future, is pretty unrealistic IMHO.

People want too many options, every format possible and at a price below actual construction cost.

Brooks Plaubel Veriwide 100 please.

What Cameras Can, and Should, Be Brought Back into Production?

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