What camera’s rf accurate enough for 50mm f/1.5?

[BradS]

What cameras have range finders that focus accurately enough for use with a 50mm f/1.5 wide open?

Leica M3 ?
What else?
Any Barnacks?

 

[Eric Rose]

In my experience good luck with Leica.

 

[StepheKoontz]

At what focus distance? I've shot with a Nikon S2 using a 50mm f1.4 wide open and most shots are in focus. But then I'm not normally trying to focus on something 3ft away from the camera either.

All that said, what's probably more important is making sure the rangefinder is accurately adjusted, and making sure this fast lens is checked on that camera body for accuracy.

 

[mshchem]

Lens shortcomings probably eclipse those of a properly adjusted rangefinder. MHO.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Lens shortcomings probably eclipse those of a properly adjusted rangefinder. MHO.

but nothin is more important for sharpness than accurate focus and 'sweet-spot' aperture.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I don't know where this myth comes from.
I used 50 1,5 on M3, on M4-2, on R2M, on FED-2 and on Zorki.
They are all precise.
But any lens on any Bessa (R, T, R2M) I used is kind of, something... more hesitant.
I prefer 50 1.5 on Zorki. RF window is 1:1 and SBOOI is 1:1.

 

[mshchem]

but nothin is more important for sharpness than accurate focus and 'sweet-spot' aperture.

Absolutely, with a fast lens I still don't shoot wide open. I stick with a Summicron f2 50mm, usually the widest I shoot is 2.8, I still think the old 5.6 rule is good fo a 50mm. I like f1.4 lenses on SLRs, so I can SEE. Still don't shoot wide open. The lone exception is my AF-D 28 1.4, but that's a fabulous, quite wide lens.

I don't see the need for really fast huge lenses on rangefinders. You can hand hold a Leica at a 1/4 of a second etc.

But to answer the OP question certainly a M Leica with proper maintenance should be upto the task.

 

[StepheKoontz]

I don't see the need for really fast huge lenses on rangefinders. You can hand hold a Leica at a 1/4 of a second etc.

Not reliably with nothing to brace yourself against. The below was shot at 1/30 @ f1.4 standing across the road. I sure wouldn't have chosen to use f2.8 or f4 instead.

 

[mshchem]

Not reliably with nothing to brace yourself against. The below was shot at 1/30 @ f1.4 standing across the road. I sure wouldn't have chosen to use f2.8 or f4 instead.

View attachment 226531

No argument. But my f 2 lens is plenty fast, and you can shoot at 1/4 second, anything that steadies is good. Deep breath. Or if you shoot in the dusk shoot, digital.

 

[etn]

I‘ve had good experience with Leicas and Zeiss Ikon.

If the 50 1.5 you have in mind is the Zeiss ZM Sonnar: this one is said to have focus shift. The focus shift is probably more important than the inaccuracy of the rangefinder. Although I have a Sonnar (recently acquired), I can‘t comment on this topic - I ran some tests but haven‘t processed the rolls yet... If you are interested I will post my results when i have them.

 

[etn]

but nothin is more important for sharpness than accurate focus and 'sweet-spot' aperture.

Ralph, what exactly is sweet-spot aperture? Thank you!

 

[BMbikerider]

I don't have a rangefinder camera now but I have used a Canon 7 in the past and a late model Contax. The long base rangefinder of the Contax was always more positive, but accuracy between the two was undetectable and when used with a 50/F2 there was no visible difference, even at F2. Even the etched distances on both lenses gave the same reading.

However to get a definitive answer, (that also applies to my experience) you would have to revert to laboratory tests. Hand held pictures could easily disguise any focusing errors with even a little bit of shake at the time of taking.

 

[guangong]

For bars and other dimly lit venues I have had good results with my M5 and Voigtlander 50 1.5, when shot wide open. However, a Summicron also works quite well, both 50 and 90..
Keep in mind that Leica 50mm 1.4 lenses were designed specifically for low light situations. Also, quite a hunk of glass to carry if smaller apertures will do.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I've never had issues with a 1.4, even on a Hexar RF and that camera has a low mag viewfinder. I think most of it is user error quite frankly. Like most things in life, some people can and some people can't.

Any M mount Leicas will be fine with the Bessas bringing up the rear so to speak.

You might want to be more specific of what you have in mind though.

 

[__Brian]

Ralph, what exactly is sweet-spot aperture? Thank you!

Most lenses have focus shift due to spherical aberration, meaning as you stop down the lens the agreement with the camera's rangefinder is off. The lens is "optimized" to give best agreement as a certain aperture. With the Nikkor lenses- best agreement is when used wide-open. With a Summarit 5cm F1.5, best agreement when used close-up is at F2.8. Canon 50mm F1.5- best agreement is at F2. To really complicate things- chromatic aberration also causes focus shift. Using a deep yellow, orange, and red filter cause focus shift with some lenses- but not others. The amount of shift depends on correction for spherical aberration and chromatic aberration.

So- what lens do you have, or plan to get? Do you plan on using it wide-open and close-up?

Quick answer for the original question- I've used a Canon 50mm F1.5, shim changed for "sweet-Spot" to be wide-open, on a Leica CL. Requires a little more care to focus accurately wide-open than it does on an M3. No problem on a Bessa R2. The Barnack Leica rangefinder cameras from the Leica III and newer use a 1.5x magnifier with the RF, no problem using a 50/1.5 on them.

Good write-up on Cameraquest-

https://cameraquest.com/Epson-R-D1/_r-d1/r-d1_05.htm

 

[BradS]

I guess I will have to keep trying. This whole Leica “experience “ is new to me. Trying...

Leica M4-P and 50mm f1.5 Summarit-M
Only having trouble at close distances, 5~6 feet or so. Every where else is fine.

 

[__Brian]

The Summarit 50/1.5 is going to front-focus by about 1" when used wide-open with a properly calibrated rangefinder. Either stop-down to F2.8, or focus then move into the subject ever-so-slightly.

Or- if you are handy with a lens, change the spacing between the lens elements.

https://cameraderie.org/threads/tal...-5-summarit-optimize-for-wide-aperture.39389/

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I guess I will have to keep trying. This whole Leica “experience “ is new to me. Trying...

Leica M4-P and 50mm f1.5 Summarit-M
Only having trouble at close distances, 5~6 feet or so. Every where else is fine.

I had this lens on M3 mostly. If you will find this lens too heavy and too funky at 1.5, try Jupiter-3. I did.
And don't leave the lens on 1.5. It might burn the curtain in no time.

 

[summicron1]

Leica used to say that a way to demonstrate the accuracy of its rangefinder -- and this is with a barnack -- is to put two pins in a piece of wood one meter away from you, with one pin 3 cm in front of the other and off to the side a bit so you can see both.

Focus on the one in front and you will see a slight separation on the one in back...this is at one meter. That's far more precise than you need for an f 1.5 lens.

Using a Summilux on a Leica CL will cause problems because the rangefinder base is too short, so they advise you to stick to f2 or smaller on that camera.

 

[film_man]

No problems focusing the 50/1.5 ZM wide open on my M4 even at the minimum focus distance.

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

Had no problem nailing focus with a borrowed f/0.95 Noctilux wide open with my M2 recently.

 

[Eric Rose]

Leica rangefinders are notorious for going out of calibration. Many come from the factory out of calibration. Zone focusing is your friend when it comes to Leica.

Ya ya I expect lots of flames but anyone who has used them professionally knows how finicky they are. Any real world rough handling throws their precious rangefinder to crap. That's the main reason the Nikon F wiped them from the PJ's radar in very short order.

Anyone who doesn't put 40 to 50 thousand frames a year through one doesn't have a credible opinion imho. And before you get your knickers in a knot that's only 3 rolls a day. Don't waste my time telling me about Winogrand. He didn't even use his VF for the most part. Again zone focus.

Amateurs generally baby their cameras compared to working pros and only shoot a fraction of the frames so any inherent problems will take much longer if at all to appear. So opinions of durability etc made by amateurs is of no use.

Would I use one of my M's with a 1.2 lens? Yes but only after I send it away for calibration. Oh wait you say the turn around time with Leica can be over 6 months! Well maybe I would use my Nikon instead.

Leica's have their place but not in the world of razor thin DOF.

 

[film_man]

Anyone who doesn't put 40 to 50 thousand frames a year through one doesn't have a credible opinion imho. And before you get your knickers in a knot that's only 3 rolls a day. Don't waste my time telling me about Winogrand. He didn't even use his VF for the most part. Again zone focus.

Amateurs generally baby their cameras compared to working pros and only shoot a fraction of the frames so any inherent problems will take much longer if at all to appear. So opinions of durability etc made by amateurs is of no use.

Opinions of durability are very much use dependand on who is asking. There is no point for someone who only does 5 rolls/month to discount something because it will not withstand professional overuse without regular servicing. As you say, problems will take much longer to appear so based on your numbers for someone doing maybe 10 rolls/month they've got nearly 10 years before they have to worry about calibration. Which may very well be fine for a lot of people. I mean, do *you* still shoot 40k frames a year? This year? Last year? If not what does it even matter?

But yeah, razor thin DOF is not what I'd put at the top of the list for Leica.

 

[Eric Rose]

In the 70's, 80's and just into the 90' the answer was yes. Leicas are fun to use however their RF calibration is their achilles heal.

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

Leica rangefinders are notorious for going out of calibration. Many come from the factory out of calibration. Zone focusing is your friend when it comes to Leica.

Ya ya I expect lots of flames but anyone who has used them professionally knows how finicky they are. Any real world rough handling throws their precious rangefinder to crap. That's the main reason the Nikon F wiped them from the PJ's radar in very short order.

Anyone who doesn't put 40 to 50 thousand frames a year through one doesn't have a credible opinion imho. And before you get your knickers in a knot that's only 3 rolls a day. Don't waste my time telling me about Winogrand. He didn't even use his VF for the most part. Again zone focus.

Amateurs generally baby their cameras compared to working pros and only shoot a fraction of the frames so any inherent problems will take much longer if at all to appear. So opinions of durability etc made by amateurs is of no use.

Would I use one of my M's with a 1.2 lens? Yes but only after I send it away for calibration. Oh wait you say the turn around time with Leica can be over 6 months! Well maybe I would use my Nikon instead.

Leica's have their place but not in the world of razor thin DOF.

I suppose that all started with press photographers who didn't have to pay for their own gear - they abused their cameras with the thinking that getting the photo is more important than the camera itself. But sure, every camera has its limitations and will eventually need service. It kind of turned into a right of passage to have a brassed and dented camera.

Wanna-be's, posers, and blow-hards (and the extremely clumsy) are the ones who abuse their cameras these days. The professionals who have to pay for their gear tend to take better care. It's folly to abuse something that one is so dependent on.

I agree that a Leica rangefinder isn't the right tool nowadays for rapid-fire, tens of thousands of frames per year photography in harsh conditions - there are better tools for that these days. But they were used that way in the past with excellent results. (And that wasn't the original question anyway.)

I think the Leica is an excellent rangefinder camera for fast lenses because it can be adjusted and serviced now, and into the foreseeable future.