What bulk loader and cassette?

Donald Qualls · May 27, 2020

ic-racer said:
I think there was a post somewhere that the pre-loaded cassettes are more economical. I'm still looking for that link. I'd like to know where.

When I buy film at, for example, Freestyle. I see 100ft TMX for $113 and 36 exp TMX for $8.00 each.
Bulk = $113
Pre-load = 17 x $8 = $136

Maybe there is some coupon or something that I need to achieve the cost savings of pre-loads that I have been missing out since the 1970s.

Okay, so $23 difference in actual cost (assuming you already have cassettes you can reload), for 17 rolls. Whether this is economical depends on how you value your time.

As a hobby, most of us won't count an hourly rate for time spent pursuing the hobby, but if you make a living at photography, you certainly should -- and if you're earning an actual living, your time to load 17 cassettes is probably worth more than $23. Add to this a (presumed) reduced chance of damaged film or loading errors with commercially loaded cassettes, and no fogged tail lying in wait to steal the best shot of your life because it's at the end of the roll, and you can easily see how the economics can reverse. Over time, cassettes can wear out or become damaged, too, adding (very slightly) to the cost of bulk loading.

In the end, it's something that's probably mainly of interest to hobbyists, rather than professionals (though this seemingly wasn't the case when photojournalists shot black and white film in carload quantities).

Wallendo · May 27, 2020

Since the OP was given film, there is obviously a monetary savings.

My reasons for bulk loading usually are not monetary:
1) I actually enjoy the process of loading my own film
2) I can make rolls of many different lengths (6, 12, 24, 36 exposures). The shorter rolls are useful when testing a new camera, lens or technique. It also comes in handy when I want to shoot an activity and want to develop the film now, but don't plan to take 36 images.
3) Occasionally I come across a great deal on a vintage roll of classic film (although this has become increasingly infrequent)

ColdEye · May 27, 2020

My only dx dependent camera is my nikon F5, but I mostly shoot color with that. Speaking of color, there is no bulk color film available for these loaders right? One without the remjet backing. Or even slide film?

pentaxuser · May 27, 2020

ColdEye said:
My only dx dependent camera is my nikon F5, but I mostly shoot color with that.

The F5 is a camera that i have admired but I don't have one. However I'd be amazed if there is not a separate ISO dial on the F5 that allows you to either override the dx on a cassette or in the case of cassettes without dx such as is the case with Foma cassettes, if I have understood things correctly, allows you to set your own ISO?

pentaxuser

ColdEye · May 27, 2020

pentaxuser said:
The F5 is a camera that i have admired but I don't have one. However I'd be amazed if there is not a separate ISO dial on the F5 that allows you to either override the dx on a cassette or in the case of cassettes without dx such as is the case with Foma cassettes, if I have understood things correctly, allows you to set your own ISO?

pentaxuser

Yes you can set it separately with a dial/button, you dont need DX coding to use it on the F5.

DWThomas · May 27, 2020

My recent bulk loading experience is very modest. I was given a 100 foot roll of Panatomic-X and have been spooling off occasional rolls, generally short, to run through my Argus C-3 on Argus Day. I started by taping the roll end to a spool then hanging the spool on a nail in the darkroom door frame. From there I have two ball-headed thumbtacks at appropriate spacing for 20 and 36 exposures. It works but is tedious. I also encountered some occasional minor film damage which seemed possibly related to maneuvering a few feet of film in the dark.

So I picked up a Watson 100 bulk loader from e-Prey at a modest price. It works -- I have some metal and some plastic cassettes, so far so good. I usually start the process in the darkroom which avoids any end of roll light striking.

Since my "serious" work these days is medium format, I doubt the loader will get too much use. I do get some warm fuzzies running film that expired in 1988 through the camera I bought at the end of 1957! That is especially so since some of the results have been pretty successful. I think perhaps the ability to create various roll lengths is one of the most useful aspects of having a loader. When the slow attrition of the current bulk roll empties the loader, I'm not sure I will continue with the process.

MattKing · May 27, 2020

One further advantage of bulk rolls is that 100 feet of film takes an incredibly small amount of space to store - even if it is in a loader.
I have three loaders - one "Lloyds" style and two tear drop style - two of which have film in right now.
I like both styles.
I also have a bunch of old film cassettes that originally had Agfa slide film or a house brand colour print film in them. They are metal and from the days when they were more durable and easy to reload. Very few of my cameras read DX encoding, and I generally use those for colour print film.

Donald Qualls · May 27, 2020

ColdEye said:
Speaking of color, there is no bulk color film available for these loaders right? One without the remjet backing. Or even slide film?

There used to be (I've seen Ektachrome packaged that way, back in the 1970s, and I have an old roll of unperfed 35mm Vericolor in the freezer that will probably eventually wind up in my Bantam RF), but I don't recall seeing color still films offered in bulk rolls in quite a long time. Yes, you can get Visions3 in 400 foot rolls, but as you note, it has remjet, and Cinestill hasn't (AFAIK) offered 100 foot lengths of their no-remjet variants of that film family.

Agulliver · May 27, 2020

I've occasionally seen Fuji Superia 400 in 100 and 200 foot rolls on Ebay but I've never seen it listed at a photo/film retailer. Sometimes the Kodak Vision 3 motion picture film comes up in 100 foot or shorter rolls on Ebay too.

As for saving money.....assuming one doesn't use Kodak B&W film (their prices are high for 100' rolls) yes, you can save. I tend to bulk roll Ilford HP5+ and Fomapan 100 and 200. Those films offer considerable savings over buying factory cassettes. The other advantage to bulk loading is I can load 10 exposures for testing a camera or for a specific purpose, or any number I choose. When the local jazz and blues club was open I used to roll a lot of 18 or 20 exposure cassettes and shoot one a week there.

dourbalistar · May 27, 2020

A few years ago, Freestyle blew out some short-dated 100-foot bulk rolls of Fuji Superia 400 for the fantastic price of $20. Naturally, it sold out very quickly. I have a few of them in my freezer. Since then, I don't think I've seen bulk rolls of color at any other retailer.

dourbalistar · May 27, 2020

Actually, it was a friendly member here on Photrio who sent out a PSA about the fantastically cheap Superia:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/fuji-superia-400-35mm-bulk-roll-sale-at-freestyle.148515/

Donald Qualls · May 27, 2020

Film Photography Project has the Visions3 films avalable, already rolled down to 100 foot lengths -- but of course this still has remjet. They also have "Retrochrome 400", which they say is freezer-stored Ektachrome, an industrial and government version. Not cheap, but...

They and Ultrafine also apparently have some duplicating films compatible with C-41 -- very slow (the one I looked at in detail is ISO 1.6 or a little less), and color balance is odd (designed for laser and LED writing or duplication from a film negative) -- but no remjet and they have it in 100 foot rolls.

StepheKoontz · May 27, 2020

I have a Watson bulk loader, but now I just use it as a "film safe" to store my bulk roll in. I picked up a Leica AGRIF hand winder "stick" and found it easier to just pull off a length of film (using thin cotton gloves in a dark closet at night, I have no real "darkroom" good enough for loading film) and manually spin it onto the spool. Recently have been using the shirley-wellard cassette that have no felt trap, as well as the Leica FILCA and also have a couple of the contax, canon and nikon versions of these labyrinth cassettes.

pentaxuser · May 27, 2020

ColdEye said:
Yes you can set it separately with a dial/button, you dont need DX coding to use it on the F5.

Thanks I may have misunderstood part of your previous post . I thought that you meant by dx dependent that an F5 needed dx coded cassettes such as is true of the likes of the Olympus "point and shoot" Mju II whose dx coding setting on a cassette placed in the camera cannot be over-ridden. Any non dx coded cassette reverts to ISO 100

pentaxuser

ColdEye · May 29, 2020

So I got some Arista plastic cassettes, easy enought to use. I also got some older Agfa reloadble metal ones, but I dont have them with me yet. How do you remove the top of the canister? Does it just easily pop off?

Donald Qualls · May 29, 2020

The Arista (and other plastic cassettes I've used) unscrew at the short spool end. The metal ones that I've used, that same end (matching the short spool end) pops off. The way I learned to open them (in 1969) was to grip the cassette in my fist and slam the long spool end on a hard surface -- that pops the removable end off (and your fist keeps the cap from flying away in the dark). Also checks to be sure anyone else in the darkroom at the time is awake... Easy to get the leader for loading film into a tank spiral, easy to open the empty cassette. With care, you can open that same end with a bottle opener like commercial cassettes, but you risk bending the cap that way.

MattKing · May 29, 2020

Instead of slamming, I just push firmly and steadily until they pop the end into the palm of my hand.

Donald Qualls · May 30, 2020

MattKing said:
Instead of slamming, I just push firmly and steadily until they pop the end into the palm of my hand.

You way is probably better than mine, honestly. I was thinking about it and realized that at some point, I'll probably break a spool. Easy enough to replace with one out of a pre-loaded cassette, but why invite it?

pentaxuser · May 30, 2020

MattKing said:
Instead of slamming, I just push firmly and steadily until they pop the end into the palm of my hand.

It probably depends on how firm and steady your push is. Come to think of it, weren't you the one I saw land a Jumbo jet by pulling back steadily on the joystick when there was only 300psi in the hydraulic system that normally only operates properly at 3000 psi? I recall that your shirt had become very torn, you'd turned a funny colour and you were not as articulate as normal

P.S. Was Lou Canadian as well?

pentaxuser

Agulliver · May 30, 2020

Is it cheaper? That may depend on which films you choose.

I can get Ilford HP5+ and FP4+ for around £65 for a 100 foot roll. I could get 18 36 exposure rolls from that, though in reality I roll anything from 18 frames up. But that's around £3.61 per 36 exposure film. The cheapest deal I can get on Ilfor HP5+ preloaded cassettes is currently £4.93...though it's typically more. Even that is a saving of over 25%

Fomapan 100 I can get for £43 which would equal £2.38 per 36 exposure cassette. The pre-manufactured cassettes are £4.00 though I have seen it at £3.64 elsewhere. Even that is a saving of 40%

Kodak may be a different matter but I have settled on HP5+ and Foma 100 as my most common B&W films. And if the US$ crashes much further I can get Arista EDU 100 from B&H which is the same stuff even cheaper than the Foma.

I quite enjoy bulk rolling and am an amateur so time isn't a matter. It's also good that I can keep 5 rolls of each handy while also having some empty cassettes to load as necessary.

Not to mention that retailers sometimes have special offers, people give people film, bargains are occasionally found on auction sites....good film sometimes found in old loaders. I am currently burning my way through a slightly age fogged 100 foot load of HP5+ which I bought for £20 last year. Expired in 2010 but is still good to shoot at 200, 400 or 800. My local camera shop has some outdated 200 foot rolls which could be spooled down to 100 foot loads of outdated Ilford FP4+ and HP5+ motion picture film....when it reopens. Yes, it can be cheaper.

fenollo · Jul 6, 2022

I use bulk film that doesn’t exist in commercial canisters.
I use plastic, metal reusable canisters, and Leica IXMOO and FILCA, that are very nice because, as said before, the canister opens when loaded and the film doesn’t touche the edge of it.
Mainly used in screw camera and M.
I am at my third 400ft round of Kodak 5222 (double X), it may be cheaper, I don’t actually know, but it is surely the only way for my use.

madNbad · Jul 6, 2022

fenollo said:
I use bulk film that doesn’t exist in commercial canisters.
I use plastic, metal reusable canisters, and Leica IXMOO and FILCA, that are very nice because, as said before, the canister opens when loaded and the film doesn’t touche the edge of it.
Mainly used in screw camera and M.
I am at my third 400ft round of Kodak 5222 (double X), it may be cheaper, I don’t actually know, but it is surely the only way for my use.

First, welcome to the forum! Do you split the 5222 between four bulk loaders or just load the cassettes directly off the reel?

fenollo · Jul 6, 2022

Not sure to understand.
I load any canister from my bulk loader.
For leitz, the easier is computrol (Watson of Israël) for the others, any loader is fine.
The Leica can’t be loaded with any bulk loader

madNbad · Jul 6, 2022

The film comes on a 400 feet (122 meters) reel, you load some of the film in a Watson loader so you can load the Leitz canister, do you load the rest of the film into other loaders?

fenollo · Jul 6, 2022

I roll some meters (French meter system) in a charging bag, I charge the loader, generally 10-20 canister.
I put it back in the box till next time

What bulk loader and cassette?

Donald Qualls

Wallendo

ColdEye

pentaxuser

ColdEye

DWThomas

MattKing

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Donald Qualls

Agulliver

dourbalistar

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Donald Qualls

StepheKoontz

pentaxuser

ColdEye

Donald Qualls

MattKing

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Donald Qualls

pentaxuser

Agulliver

fenollo

madNbad

fenollo

madNbad

fenollo

What bulk loader and cassette?

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