What am I really looking for here? (120 vs 35 and Travel)

rogueguineapig · Jun 10, 2016

hey folks!

sometime lurker, often a reader here...
I've got a question for you all here--especially those of you that shoot both 35 and 120.

I'm headed to Israel/Jerusalem for 3 weeks this summer to intern for a news agency (I did this last year too and got lucky enough to be asked back!)
Most of this will be covered by my Canon 6D for the agency.

However, I'd love to shoot some of these sights with film as well--in a high quality that makes large prints (16x20ish +) possible. My ideal is even paying for some high end artsy prints from photos that I might get on the trip, silver gelatin prints and the like.

My current film line up:

Nikon FM with the 50mm f/2.
- Considering buying the legendary 28mm AI-s
- Considering adding a Nikon F3 for a nice combo with the above rigs
- Considering loading one with Fuji Provia for a super-high quality slide approach like the old Nat Geo guys.
- I'd load the other with Acros, Delta 100/400, Portra, Ektar, etc

Bronica ETRS with the 50mm.
- Considering snagging a 150mm for portraits
- Considering a 40mm for the more wide angle street-and-place shots.
- Have considered selling this rig entirely, and a 135L to fund something else for this role:
either another 645 or 6x6--mainly in the interest of either quality (Hassy CM) or more portability
and street friendliness (really stretching and talking about like a Mamiya 6 or 7, which seems unlikely or perhaps a Pentacon 6?). The Bronica may have some shutter/spacing issues but at this point I'm unsure if I just made mistakes or if it's actually got problems.

I've been developing my own film and loving it, but I realize there are limits to negative sizes and prints.

Thoughts and opinions from guys who've shot both and done a little travel here and there?
Am I expecting too much ease of use and flexibility from the medium format options?
Am I expecting too much large-print potential from the 35mm slides?
Anything about the Nikon / Brony cams I should know about or consider?

Paul Howell · Jun 10, 2016

I travel light, 35mm and Digital, I tend to use the mount so lens are interchangeable. If you shoot with a D6 would think about an ESO 1 or 1N, both at very good price points, 50mm or 105 prime with 2 zooms, 28 to 105 long like a 70 to 200 2.8 L, as you will be gone 3 weeks if you don't own a 70 to 200 2.8 think about renting it, for action just rent the non IS version.

trythis · Jun 10, 2016

Whatever you choose to do, travel light!
Agree with using one kit but nothing wring with taking a lightweight folder for a few rolls. I wouldnt carry more than one camera per outing.. Enjoy the trip!

ColColt · Jun 10, 2016

I can't advise as to color film since I don't use it. If it were me, I'd take two Leica RF's, 35, 50 and 90mm lens, Pentax 6x7 with comparable lenses and a ton of Tri-X(HP-5) and FP-4.

Ron789 · Jun 10, 2016

Stick to the FM and 50mm F/2. Like the others said: travel light. Cameras don't make great photos; that is all up to you: a Nikon FM with a standard lens is all you need to make superb photos. Keep the gear simple, invest in your own viewing and shooting skills.

Kirks518 · Jun 10, 2016

I'd go with a Medium Format system for the personal stuff. If you keep your lens selection to one or two lenses, it won't be too burdensome to carry around. It's the payoff of the bigger negative that wins it for me. 35mm is fine, but if you end up with an amazing image or two that you want to go really big with, you can.

Your Canon 6D is a full frame, and if you were only going to carry 35mm size, then why bother with the film camera at all? This way you have 35mm covered with the Canon, and big beautiful negatives from the med format.

rogueguineapig · Jun 10, 2016

hey Guys!

thanks for the tips so far!
I will say this: I am well sorted for gear for the Canon 6D... got all the lenses I need.
It's looking like I will have a "home base" in Jerusalem to work out of, so yes, there's gonna be plenty of ways to leave a camera or two home on the daily outings.

I like the idea of the wider lens for options on the Nikon...the 28mm is a pretty fantastic little piece so that's why it appeals to me.
Having the two Nikons just appeals because then I can run two different rolls of film and make choices based on the scene.

Kirks: I definitely agree with the 2 lens philosophy for the film rigs. Absolutely, yes. I'd take a 35 for random street photography where I know I'm not trying to make a
huge print of the Western Wall, or the Temple mount--unless someone think I can crank that kind of quality out of slide film?

Would a Pentax 67 with a 45mm and a 120mm be more effective than the Brony? Either one seems to be a bit of a beast...the Pentax has a good rep, yes? The lenses too?

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 10, 2016

rogueguineapig said:
Most of this will be covered by my Canon 6D for the agency.

Paul Howell said:
I travel light, 35mm and Digital

Kirks518 said:
Your Canon 6D is a full frame, and if you were only going to carry 35mm size, then why bother with the film camera at all?

rogueguineapig said:
I will say this: I am well sorted for gear for the Canon 6D... got all the lenses I need.

Oh dear!
Not good enough!

Kirks518 · Jun 10, 2016

All of my MF cameras are similar to the Bronica in size and shape, and it is bulky. With the P67 you can remove the lens which I think would make it easier to get into a small gear bag, as it becomes just a 35mm SLR on steroids. Even with the lens removed on the Bronica, it will still be pretty big and bulky.

For random street photography on 35mm, I'd bring an Olympus XA or some other small, pocketable P&S camera. It will let you enjoy the vacation aspect of your trip without making you a camera guy, but still let you snap things for fun. But for the Western Wall and the sites that have a high probability of become fantastic images, medium format would definitely be in my hands.

MattKing · Jun 10, 2016

If you have good Canon lenses, just add a Canon film body and will have excellent 35mm film results. Nothing from Nikon is going to give you anything substantially better than anything with quality from Canon.

Unless you print square, I would say the same thing about Bronica ETRs vs. Hasselblad. With good technique, each is capable of very high quality 16x20 work - as is the case with Mamiya 645 equipment.

I'd suggest fixing or replacing the Bronica.

gone · Jun 10, 2016

16x20 may be pushing it for 35mm. Depends on the image and the film, as well as the subject matter. Might work OK. I would go to 6x6 and crop to 16x16 for that size, only because I seldom print 6x4.5 and prefer square for MF. Just today I was looking at the negs trying to see if any of the 35mm might go to 16x20 (or it's cropped full negative equivalent), and out of 70 possibilities I have maybe a dozen, and until I do a trial print I have no idea what they will look like at that size.

Having traveled a lot, it happens w/ just one camera now. The last few times it was w/ a Konica C35 because they have great lenses and tiny size. There's actually a 12x18 print on the wall from that camera using Tri-X and it looks pretty good. You can't pay me enough money to haul a big heavy camera around when traveling. I want to have a nice, easy trip, and have flexibility and convenience. If I get that great shot, fine, if I don't, I have plenty of negs already. I'm there for the experience. The older I get, the less I want to carry or deal with.

rwreich · Jun 10, 2016

I'm a big fan of the Mamiya 7 w/ 80mm lens. I just developed my first roll and I can tell you that there s nothing in the lightweight category that will surpass this.

Ko.Fe. · Jun 10, 2016

6D for work. Film for personal use. I do not recommend to mix job and personal interest.
You could get large prints from small negative. MF will looks better. But what is the subject? Static - MF. Vibrant life - at least SLR. Canon EOS body to be able to use 6D lenses and don't waste time to focus with slow manual focus SLRs you have.

CropDusterMan · Jun 10, 2016

As romantic as it seems, I suggest sticking to one system...you have Canon digital. Get an EOS 1N film body
and a lens to compliment what you have for the Canon Digi. Your Canon digi. is for color and the EOS 1N is BW
film. Keep it simple. Not sure what lenses you have already, but a Canon 17-40mm F4 is a great all-rounder
to go along with a Canon 24-105. I recommend a Canon flash too. The Medium format is a bear to lug around
but the two 35 bodies can go together over your shoulders.

Get one of these pouches (Newswear iPhone 6 Pouch):

And this is great to carry the film in the pouch, it fits perfectly!...(can be purchased at Freestyle)

CropDusterMan · Jun 10, 2016

momus said:
16x20 may be pushing it for 35mm.

Tell that to James Nachtwey. I've seen larger of his prints in person...blew me away.

Alan Gales · Jun 11, 2016

How big do you want to print and how picky are you?

For me 8x10 was usually the limit for 35mm using Zeiss glass with the camera on a tripod. I have pulled off 11X14's but the subjects were about color and not detail. Some will tell you that I'm wrong and 35mm is only good up to 5x7. Others are not as picky and say you can go larger than 11X14. Now I shot mostly Kodachrome 25 and Cibachrome printed.

I owned a Bronica ETRsi for a very short time but I owned a Pentax 645Nll for longer. For me lugging around a 645 camera wasn't much if any more difficult than the 35mm camera. The larger negative does make a difference though.

Holger · Jun 11, 2016

I have tried all of this when traveling: Nikon FM2n, Leica M3, Hassy 501, Rolleicord and Rolleiflex TLR. I ended up taking only one or both TLRs. They are extremely small and light for MF, absolutely silent, with perfect IQ. Sure, no changing lenses, but with 75 or 80 mm and the square neg you get everything done, from portrait to landscape. Take a look at Vivian Maier e.a.

Alan Gales · Jun 11, 2016

Holger said:
I have tried all of this when traveling: Nikon FM2n, Leica M3, Hassy 501, Rolleicord and Rolleiflex TLR. I ended up taking only one or both TLRs. They are extremely small and light for MF, absolutely silent, with perfect IQ. Sure, no changing lenses, but with 75 or 80 mm and the square neg you get everything done, from portrait to landscape. Take a look at Vivian Maier e.a.[/QUOTE

Did you see the documentary "Finding Vivian Maier" on Netflix? It was fantastic!

ignatiu5 · Jun 11, 2016

I shoot a variety of formats and own, have owned, or have used some of the rigs you’ve mentioned. The Bronica ETRSi is what I shoot most often, both at home and traveling within North America. For me, it’s the best compromise of size/weight, reasonably fast lenses, negative real estate, and what I think is an important factor, familiarity. I recently printed my first 16x20s from those negatives and from some Pentax 6x7 (my favorite camera) frames. The latter, with a normal lens, is 27% heavier than the Bronica with an equivalent lens (I just weighed mine since I was curious). It’s bulkier, louder and heavier. I don’t find it to be a discrete street setup. Personally, I’ve never traveled overseas with either as I prefer to travel lighter. I’ve always opted for a Canon EOS body with a medium zoom and a fast telephoto prime. I’ve printed 11x14s multiple times from those negatives and been happy with them.

I’ve thought about 2x 35mm bodies when traveling overseas for color and B&W, but never done it personally; I just shoot what’s loaded at the time. However, since I shoot remarkably little color in general, for me it’s not much of a sacrifice.

While only you can decide what compromises are right for you, if I was in your shoes, here are things I wouldn’t do:

I wouldn’t get a new-to-me different (Hassy, Mamiya, etc.) MF system for a trip. Shoot what you know.

I wouldn’t buy an additional Nikon body to carry potentially 3 bodies (since you have to take the 6D) and 2 lens systems. I don’t see an advantage there over alternatively getting an EOS film body where the ergonomics are likely to be similar to the 6D and now you only have one set of lenses to carry.

Vaughn · Jun 11, 2016

rogueguineapig said:
...Would a Pentax 67 with a 45mm and a 120mm be more effective than the Brony? Either one seems to be a bit of a beast...the Pentax has a good rep, yes? The lenses too?

Not for street photography -- they sound like a cannon going off. You might have people diving for cover -- or at least be annoyed. And held up to your eye, it looks like you are a walking camera-head. I'd go rangerfinder like the Mamiya 6 of 7. Actually, I would use a Rolleicord and keep it real simple! Not many would even know you are taking a photograph!

WARNING: The above advise is highly biased and I do very little street work anyway...

rogueguineapig · Jun 13, 2016

hey guys, thanks for the answers!

I'll try to answer questions and thoughts here.

Work v Personal, on being the "camera guy": I AM the camera guy! I am being brought out specifically for photo work. That said, if I'm shooting a press conference etc I will NOT be using film.
Jerusalem is my favorite city on the planet so being there with a few cameras is nothing short of a pure fantasy. For the news agency, everything will be shot digital.
On the Canon 6D: I have my 6D, 70-200 II, 16-35, 50mm. She's all sorted.

I already own the Nikon FM with the 50mm f/2 ...it may or may not make the cut.

For Medium Format, I've not had the Brony real long, so I'm not worried about familiarity--it will be a challenge in any case.
I feel like the Hassy 500 series might be the optimal replacement if I can't get away from this form factor ( though good grief is it big).
There's a local 500C for sale and a few decent 500 CMs on the evil evil eBay... we'll see though! I really just want to hit some of the special places and get a really solid negative that I can go huge with if I need to.
thanks for the thoughts and ideas!

pmargolis · Jun 14, 2016

I've been going to Israel for the past several years for a street and environmental photography project that I've been doing on black and white film. I work very simply with two rangefinder Leicas, 35mm and 50mm lenses. If I didn't have Leica gear, I would be happy with a Nikon FM and/or F3 and the same two focal lengths. Since I'm on the shady side of 60, I prefer to carry as little gear as possible.
Currently, I have an exhibit of 11x14-in. prints at Hebrew Union College in Jerusalem that should still be up when you're there. If you pm me, I'll e-mail you several of the articles that have appeared about my Israel Impressions project. Good luck.

Mark Tate · Jun 14, 2016

If it was me I would try to take my 4x5 and both Fuji rangefinders, as I need room for clothes I would only take two LF lenses with me hmm but 35mm is rather handy to have come to think of it....

Les Sarile · Jun 14, 2016

rogueguineapig said:
I've been developing my own film and loving it, but I realize there are limits to negative sizes and prints.

I have 20" X 30" traditional poster prints from a sampling of 35mm films that I have used and if I can't make a 16X20ish of quality to withstand close scrutiny it won't be because of the film, camera or lens. Since you already realized limits to negative sizes then perhaps you need to reevaluate your process to determine where the source of the limitations are such as:

What negatives were used?
What was the nature of the limitation - detail, grain, tonality?
What is the paper type?

Note that quality slide film of the same ISO will be able to resolve more detail and can be much more vivid but will sacrifice exposure latitude compared to C41 of the same ISO.
It goes without saying that a larger real estate of film can increase detail resolve commensurately provided equal quality of equipment used as well as technique.

I would also suggest that on such a trip, that you only bring known reliable equipment that you are completely familiar with.

Down Under · Jun 16, 2016

Lots of good advice here, and I am likely repeating what others have already posted. Old duffers tend to do that.

You already own a Nikon and a 50. Get a good reliable second Nikon and add a 28. Spend your hard earned dosh on good film. My choices would be TMax 100 or FP4+, Fuji for color neg, but there is ample choice out there. Whatever you fancy. But not el cheapo film.

Test the gear well before you leave.

With care and good processing, your properly exposed negatives will produce quite stunning images up to - well, 16x20 may be pushing it a little, in the corners anyway. Say 11x14, mounted on larger board. Nobody will be inspecting those prints with their noses three inches away, and if they are the type that does that, you don't want them for friends anyway. Trust me on this point.

The journey and the experience is everything. It took me almost 70 years to learn this, and fortunately for me, I'm still learning it. The cameras are things you hold in your hand to record impressions as you experience the journey. So take plenty of film.

What am I really looking for here? (120 vs 35 and Travel)

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