What am I doing wrong....

kb244 · Jun 18, 2006

Ok so I get this Beseler CS-6 developing kit from a local photo store, 1litre kit, has 4 steps (1st Dev, Color Dev, Bleach-Fix, Stabalizer). Now I know temperature is critically important in least the first two steps. I follow the instructions to the dot as per the manual, and the Provia 100F roll didnt come out right, so I figured maybe I just didnt do it right, so did the same with a Velvia 50 roll even more attention to detail and so on, same exact results. I can't figure out what I am doing wrong. These are the results off one of the rolls as I scaned it in as a color positive without correction ( an Auto-Level version just after the uncorrected if it helps, kinda doubt but who knows )

As an experiment, I shot up an old roll of ektachrome 50T, developed that all the same, except instead of 6:30 for the first dev, and 4:00 for the color dev, I did about 10:00 and 6:30. The results being a darker purple in the usually-black portion of the strip. And the subjects of the shots being a bit more discernable, but still a monochromatic color cast ( just of purple instead of amber now )

Dave Parker · Jun 18, 2006

I don't see mention of a reversal step???? your images look like negative film?

R.

roteague · Jun 18, 2006

These look like color negatives, not transparencies. Perhaps mrcallow will see this and be able to help. I haven't developed my own stuff in 15 years or so, but I've never seen results like this from home processing E6.

kb244 · Jun 18, 2006

The kit was Beseler CS-6 Kit, "For all E-6 compatible color slide films" , inside talks about how it is "Process your own E-6 color slides with Beseler's easy-to-use four-step process. Film can be pushed, pulled, or normally processed in small inversion tanks or automatic processors."

And mentions that "Reversal Agent is incorporated in the color developer, which eliminates the Reversal step or re-exposure requirement".

Dave Parker · Jun 18, 2006

I wonder if the chemistry has gone bad? does it have a date on the box? because if these are straight positive scans, they look like color negative film, as a quick test, you might tray scanning them as a negative and see what the results are, if they look closer to what they should be in the scan, then for some reason the kit is not working correctly in the reversal process.

R.

kb244 · Jun 18, 2006

Hrm no kidding... just inverted and de-saturated that above.... Think my color developer step might be shot?

Dave Parker · Jun 18, 2006

Yeppers, sure looks like something is wrong in the color developer step with the reversal process...

R.

kb244 · Jun 18, 2006

here the frame when scaned as a color negative.

kb244 · Jun 18, 2006

as for date on box, no date on the box or contents, just this price sticker on the top, and the UPC on the bottom.

Acording to their website.

RETURN/EXCHANGE POLICY

Returns will not be accepted for film, paper, chemistry and software. This policy insures that you will always receive fresh, temperature controlled materials. Defective film, paper, chemistry and software are subject to their respective manufacturer's policies.

But... what if they sold me non-fresh bad chemistry?

Dave Parker · Jun 18, 2006

Well if their pricing policies are the same as all the stores I worked in, the 030205 on the top of the price tag indicates they received the product in stock over a year ago, which would lead me to believe that the kit is out of date and possibly has gone bad, E-6 chemistry can be very sensitive to storage conditions, again, my guess based on what you have posted and your images, looks like something is going wrong in the color developer stage which is not working correctly for color or reversal. In looking at the frame you scanned as a negative, you can see the reversal did not work, the lines on the track are white and in your positive scans they are black..

R.

kb244 · Jun 18, 2006

Roxi331 said:
Well if their pricing policies are the same as all the stores I worked in, the 030205 on the top of the price tag indicates they received the product in stock over a year ago, which would lead me to believe that the kit is out of date and possibly has gone bad, E-6 chemistry can be very sensitive to storage conditions, again, my guess based on what you have posted and your images, looks like something is going wrong in the color developer stage which is not working correctly for color or reversal.

R.

*grumbles*

kb244 · Jun 18, 2006

Any advice for 'Next Time...'

Dave Parker · Jun 18, 2006

kb244 said:
Any advice for 'Next Time...'

If possible, I would order a kit from one of the larger volume sellers like B&H who have a tendancy to turn over their chemistry quicker, you can also make your own E6 chemistry...I can't find the link to the page right now, but here is a link to information on E6 developing.

http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/photo/e6.htm

R.

JBrunner · Jun 18, 2006

It appears that there may be a problem with the 10.009144643 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Cyan Dye (to Record Red Light); 6.902812504 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Magenta Dye (to Record Green Light); and 9.122236657 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Yellow Dye (to Record Blue Light). Your light waves may be shedding electrons.

But it is probably just bad chemistry.

Dave Parker · Jun 18, 2006

JBrunner said:
It appears that there may be a problem with the 10.009144643 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Cyan Dye (to Record Red Light); 6.902812504 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Magenta Dye (to Record Green Light); and 9.122236657 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Yellow Dye (to Record Blue Light). Your light waves may be shedding electrons.

But it is probably just bad chemistry.

Hey you be nice!!! Why don't you really tax your mind and go over and talk to Ed Davor about grainy film, he has taxed my mind for the day!

LOL

R.

kb244 · Jun 18, 2006

JBrunner said:
It appears that there may be a problem with the 10.009144643 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Cyan Dye (to Record Red Light); 6.902812504 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Magenta Dye (to Record Green Light); and 9.122236657 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Yellow Dye (to Record Blue Light). Your light waves may be shedding electrons.

But it is probably just bad chemistry.

Know of a good way to correct the light waves hitting into my camera, perhaps a device where I can alter the molecules?

lol

Donald Qualls · Jun 18, 2006

That sure looks like bad color dev. No idea why it'd come out as a negative, unless you also have bad first dev (and then it should be solid dye, no image at all), but it also looks as if you have some unreacted dye couplers, which could form a faint orange negative image if something removed the dyes along with the silver.

There's certainly *something* seriously wrong with your chemistry...

Ed Sukach · Jun 18, 2006

I'm betting that the chemistry was shot. Check your instruction sheet - usually one can determine the chemical "goodness" by the appearance of the various components. I can't remember the composition of Beseler E-6, offhand, but I think (probability = 10%) that Part "B" of the color developer should be "light straw" in color. Significant darkening indicates oxidation/ age-related "shot-ness".

srs5694 · Jun 18, 2006

I agree with the others that it looks like bad chemistry. A couple more comments, though:

First, it looks like the box has had three different price tags on it. Aside from the tag date issues others have speculated about, replacing old price tags with new ones is something you'd expect to see with a product that's been on the shelf for months or even years.

Second, although IMHO the best bet is to just discard the remaining chemistry, if you're willing to sacrifice a roll, you could try reversing the film with light. You'd develop in the first developer, do a stop bath, expose the film to light, and proceed with the second developer and on through the rest of the steps. I'm by no means an expert on E-6 chemistry, so I wouldn't care to speculate on the probability of your getting useable slides out of this, assuming the chemistry has gone bad; but it might be worth trying. Even if you don't get traditionally good results, it's conceivable you'd get something that would be "off" in an interesting way.

kb244 · Jun 19, 2006

Ed Sukach said:
I'm betting that the chemistry was shot. Check your instruction sheet - usually one can determine the chemical "goodness" by the appearance of the various components. I can't remember the composition of Beseler E-6, offhand, but I think (probability = 10%) that Part "B" of the color developer should be "light straw" in color. Significant darkening indicates oxidation/ age-related "shot-ness".

Well to give you an idea.

1st Developer - yellowish clear , but had some small crystal structures at the bottom.
Color developer Parts - One clear, the other almost black.
Bleach Fix - Both very very dark
Stabalizer - only 10ml of it, but was clear with a tint

needless to say the Color Dev +reversal was almost like a dark black rust color, and the Bleach Fix, was almost like a dark grape soda color.

....

Needless to say, they took back the merchandise, my wife returned it for me while I was at work, since I work 9 hour days, and typically 7 days a week.

Donald Qualls · Jun 21, 2006

I recall E-4 color dev being a very, very dark purple, some 30+ years ago; that might have been normal, but the negative appearance and poor dye density could come from bad foggant -- you'd get a little additional development and accompanying dye deposition from the exposed areas if there wasn't a high level of halide solvent in the first dev (since the first dev probably isn't to completion, there'll be exposed halide that wasn't developed), but without the fogging effect, you wouldn't get the positive you should.

In any case, you got what you needed -- except for the film, and the images on it...

Ed Sukach · Jun 21, 2006

kb244 said:
Well to give you an idea.
Color developer Parts - One clear, the other almost black.
Bleach Fix - Both very very dark
needless to say the Color Dev +reversal was almost like a dark black rust color, and the Bleach Fix, was almost like a dark grape soda color.

One component of the color developer was "almost black" and Color developer + reversal, a "dark black rust color..." ...
*NO* doubt in my mind that chemistry was BAD!!! Probably on the shelf, or in storage, for years.

Needless to say, they took back the merchandise, my wife returned it for me while I was at work, since I work 9 hour days, and typically 7 days a week.

The place where you bought the stuff should be commended for accepting the return. At least there is *some* integrity left in this world.

What am I doing wrong....

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