What a difference a dark cloth makes!

Donald Qualls · Sep 9, 2005

A couple days ago I went out to make some images for the APUG 3rd anniversary. Among other things I discovered (like how to salvage a Tri-X film sheet exposed through the antihalation base), I was astounded to discover that I could see the ground glass more readily at f/22 under a simple black t-shirt dark cloth than I could in just the folding hood at f/4.5.

How come nobody mentions that those hoods are only for desparation shots, like "I was planning to scale focus, but here's a scene that just *has* to be set up on the ground glass!"

It was also amazing to me, after understanding how depth of field works for something like 35 years, to finally, for the first time, actually *see* the image get sharper as I stopped down -- even in an SLR, I was never able to see the f/16 image well enough to see how much DOF I was gaining, but on that 9x12 cm ground glass, with my head in the t-shirt, I could see the grass and rocks close to the camera get sharper, and sharper, as I stopped down from f/4.5 to f/22. I had to restrain myself from going all the way down to f/45 and accepting the slow shutter -- wasn't needed, and no reason to give up resolution to diffraction, but *damn!*

Look for the print scans in the Anniversay gallery after my next darkroom session...

Troy Ammons · Sep 9, 2005

Gees, you should try a binocular viewer sometime. I finally found one for my cambo for cheap, snagged it and damn, that thing is like see for the first time. You can see the entire screen, no cloth no nothing but the binoc back.

I have G-Claron lenses and its way bright enough for those at F9 and even stopped way way down. Now I want to figure out how I can get that thing on my 8x10, but thats going to make a huge clunky package.

Highly recommended.

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 9, 2005

Well, like, yeah!

I do use the folding hood often with my 4x5" cameras, often with a wide-brimmed hat that I can use for extra shade, because it's convenient, particularly in places where I might want to stay aware of what's going on around me, but a darkcloth is much better for seeing the groundglass.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Sep 10, 2005

I like the T-shirt because you can keep it around your neck like a, well, t-shirt, and use it to cover the back of the camera as needed. Plus you can wear it in a single gesture and stay warm.

Tom Hoskinson · Sep 10, 2005

I'll stick with my BlackJacket(s).

ChrisC · Sep 10, 2005

I've been using an old black t-shirt the 9 or so months I've been shooting 4x5, but I think the fact that it's old is starting to cause a few problems.

I was out with it yesterday (it feels fantastic to be in a shooting frame of mind again, by the way!), and the sun was getting through the t-shirt and still causing me some greif on the gg. I had to shade the outside of the t-shirt with one hand, while trying to focus and trying to stop the wind from blowing the t-shirt off my head! I need to construct/buy something better before summer really kicks in.

carsten · Sep 10, 2005

This is the right perfect wonderful idea for the APUG t-shirt!
A t-shirt studied to be perfect to see the ground glass, to compose and then to focus!
Maybe red inside and black outside, doubled, or with an extra neck or a strange hood, or simple like it is. Let's think about it.
It will be a very original t-shirt, a "piece unique", and useful too: I think it is the best idea of all.
Carlo

Rubin · Sep 10, 2005

carsten said:
This is the right perfect wonderful idea for the APUG t-shirt!
A t-shirt studied to be perfect to see the ground glass, to compose and then to focus!
Maybe red inside and black outside, doubled, or with an extra neck or a strange hood, or simple like it is. Let's think about it.
It will be a very original t-shirt, a "piece unique", and useful too: I think it is the best idea of all.
Carlo

I agree, The Apug t shirt will quickly became a must!

User Removed · Sep 10, 2005

The only thing that the viewing hood on the back of your camera is good for...is to protect the glass! It does no good trying to compose an image thru that silly thing.

If you think the tshirt is a great idea...you should get yourself a REAL darkcloth that is 100% light tight! Then you will be even MORE excited! If you do not want to fork over the money for a decent darkcloth, go to a fabic store and buy a square of any black, lightproof fabric. I know for a fact that Crushed Velvet is nearly light tight, and very light weight.

lee · Sep 10, 2005

who would have thought that a dark cloth would be the answer to seeing the image on the gg. What have people been using for nearly a 100 years? Sheesh! Some people take longer to get it than others.

lee\c

carsten · Sep 10, 2005

McPhotoX said:
If you think the tshirt is a great idea...you should get yourself a REAL darkcloth that is 100% light tight! Then you will be even MORE excited! If you do not want to fork over the money for a decent darkcloth, go to a fabic store and buy a square of any black, lightproof fabric. I know for a fact that Crushed Velvet is nearly light tight, and very light weight.

It is obvious that a dark cloth, velvet or black fabric or whatever, it is the best solution and the most professional.
But I think that the dark cloth/t shirt is a wonderful idea because I know Apug was looking for inputs to design its Anniversary t shirt. I think it should be funny, original and why not quite useful.

Donald Miller · Sep 10, 2005

carsten said:
It is obvious that a dark cloth, velvet or black fabric or whatever, it is the best solution and the most professional.
But I think that the dark cloth/t shirt is a wonderful idea because I know Apug was looking for inputs to design its Anniversary t shirt. I think it should be funny, original and why not quite useful.

I agree. However I think that it should incorporate a can opener, screwdriver, compass, knife blade, and flashlight in the design.

Donald Qualls · Sep 10, 2005

Lee, mostly, some people without budgets try to get by with what they have, save the money for film and paper and chemicals instead of spending it on equipment. The t-shirt in this case was free (and I'll just have to hope no one notices the religious message -- I noticed it only when I pulled the shirt out of my bag), and as such fits my budget well.

That a dark cloth was better was a given -- *how much* better was the revelation.

BTW, MHV, this shirt, with this camera (9x12 plate camera, 1920s vintage) works best with the neck of the shirt stretched around the camera body, one shoulder positioned to allow pulling the dark slide still under the shirt. That day was also the first time I've used one of my (70-almost 80 year old) cameras without getting at least one light leak somewhere on the film.

Next is to start loading the holders in a "real" darkroom instead of a changing bag, in hopes of cutting down on pre-exposure dust (nasty stuff, prints black).

Donald Qualls · Sep 10, 2005

Donald Miller said:
I agree. However I think that it should incorporate a can opener, screwdriver, compass, knife blade, and flashlight in the design.

Whoops, watch out -- you'd have to check that one in your baggage if you fly, can't carry it on with a screwdriver and knife blade (and certainly can't wear it to fly in).

athanasius80 · Sep 11, 2005

Someone mentioned fabric stores...
Well I'm not the biggest fan of black crushed velvet (it looks lovely on the ladies but makes me look a little too "metrosexual") so I got a little over a yard each of white muslin and black cotton twill. Cut them the same size, sew around the edge on 3 sides, turn inside out and sew the last side. Voila, cheap dark cloth thats "good enough" and also makes a nice wrapper for my cherry 5x7.

carsten · Sep 11, 2005

Donald Miller said:
I agree. However I think that it should incorporate a can opener, screwdriver, compass, knife blade, and flashlight in the design.

For all this stuff is enough to carry a Swiss Army Knife like Victorinox, they have all of what you need in a couple of inches. And almost every pair of trousers (and some skirts) have a pocket where to put it.

Not every t shirt is an Apug t shirt.

mark · Sep 11, 2005

Hey DOnald, grab a big towel they block even moe light.

In the colder months My dad and I both use our coats. Imagine driving around a corner and seeing two grown men with their coats on top of their heads as opposed to on their bodies.

I've been considering a bright ass orange Dark CLoth for hunting season. Last year my shooting was interupted by a couple of hunters who suggested some sort of orange somewhere. They said with the tripod, the camera, and the dark cloth over my head, I definately did not look like a person from a very long way away. It would be real ugly though.

User Removed · Sep 11, 2005

I can see how a tripod, large format camera, and a man standing behind it would look somewhat like a large elk. Well....not really.

PS-If you ever see a video camera set up in the forest on a tree...take a rock or your tripod and smash it down. Hunters in AZ are now setting up video cameras to monitor where the animals are all year long, so when hunting season comes along they know EXACTLY where to go. Also, there is a new service called ONLINE HUNTING where someone can get live video feeds to their computer at home, and when an animal appears, they can bid on who gets the animal for the highest price. A certified hunter then goes out and kills the animal and you must pick it up the next day.

Personally...I do not think this is right. My mother works out in the forrest, and often runs into hunters who mistake her for an animal. So, the orange darkcloth is a good idea maybe!

ann · Sep 12, 2005

i don;t think many of the women who use LF cameras are going to be crazy about using a t shirt, without with an apug logo.
I rather not end up in jail for indecent exposure

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 12, 2005

I was waiting for someone to point that out. It's not such a great solution in the winter either for persons of either gender.

Donald Qualls · Sep 12, 2005

Well, fortunately, I'm not one to go out in short sleeves (just a habit of many years' standing; I *need* a shirt pocket, and the pockets available on t-shirts are horrible, when you can find one at all, while short sleeves on a button-up shirt just seem silly), so I carry the t-shirt in my camera bag and use it only for the camera, not as a garment.

I'm pretty sure it'd be legal for me to take my shirt off in public, but it might still be indecent...

carsten · Sep 14, 2005

David A. Goldfarb said:
I was waiting for someone to point that out. It's not such a great solution in the winter either for persons of either gender.

In spite of my italian origin I am not a fashion designer, but I thought that the dark/cloth t-shirt would have a sort of hood or a creative neck or collar, so you do not need to denudate. A technical photo t-shirt. I think you can pull your t shirt from its special apugger designed neck to make it match with the GG...

Calamity Jane · Sep 14, 2005

I've tried using my T-shirt - seems to cause traffic accidents

Changeling1 · Sep 14, 2005

I always thought gazing into the ground glass and fine focusing with a lupe under a dark cloth was one of the coolest aspects of LF! With the recent purchase of a 4x5 Crown Graphic which hasn't arrived yet- I'll be able to look through a LF rangefinder or the folding viewing hood for the first time knowing that if I don't like it, which I don't think I will, I can still compose and focus the image the old-fashioned way!

RichSBV · Sep 14, 2005

McPhotoX said:
I can see how a tripod, large format camera, and a man standing behind it would look somewhat like a large elk. Well....not really.

PS-If you ever see a video camera set up in the forest on a tree...take a rock or your tripod and smash it down. Hunters in AZ are now setting up video cameras to monitor where the animals are all year long, so when hunting season comes along they know EXACTLY where to go. Also, there is a new service called ONLINE HUNTING where someone can get live video feeds to their computer at home, and when an animal appears, they can bid on who gets the animal for the highest price. A certified hunter then goes out and kills the animal and you must pick it up the next day.

Personally...I do not think this is right. My mother works out in the forrest, and often runs into hunters who mistake her for an animal. So, the orange darkcloth is a good idea maybe!

How 'bout the next time a hunter is out, they smash your camera?

And seriously, even the fools that think photographing or videoing animals before hunting seasons helps are just wasting their time. Animals change almost ALL of their habits at the beggining of hunting season. Some due to it being hunting season, but mnostly due to the change of seasons itself.

If you do see a hunters camera out in the woods, it would be much better to leave them with a hoto of something to remember. Either a simple sign telling them what a dumb thing they did and how much money they wasated on the equipment, or maybe a shot of a 'full moon'!

But suggesting that someone destroy anothers expensive equipment, for whatever reason, is simply a pretty stupid thing to do!

What a difference a dark cloth makes!

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