Well, that's it for Australians buying goods from overseas

hoffy · May 31, 2018

https://www.news.com.au/finance/bus...1/news-story/0842f955c18b0f84c3cee7046f63b894

So, due to the new GST collection rules on overseas retailers, that come into effect from the 1st of January, Amazon US have ceased shipping to Australian addresses.

So, if the biggest online retailer can't make it work, what are the chances that retailers like B&H and Freestyle making it work. TO give it an Australian term, I'd suggest that its going to be None and Buckley's.......

While there are still some reasonable retailers selling film at prices close to what we can buy overseas, its the products that I can't buy in Australia that really have me pissed off. The chances of us now getting anything that is oddball and not wholesaled into this country are now nill.

A big "F..K You" shout out to Gerry Harvey

mshchem · May 31, 2018

So I look online GST is 10%. Is that it or is there other sales taxes. In theory this makes a lot if sense. In practice you are probably just going to have more cost , less selection and even shoddy goods. I am for an even playing field, but the process is bullshit .

hoffy · May 31, 2018

Its not the tax that I am complaining about. Quite often adding 10% to the price of an item and factoring in shipping still means items are vastly cheaper to buy from the US.

Its the fact that I suspect that a lot of overseas retailers will go "too hard" and no longer ship to Australia.

Oh, and lets not forget the fact that there are so many items sold in other markets that are not brought into this country

paul ewins · May 31, 2018

I'm pretty sure Amzon could make it work, after all it is simply if shipping address = Australia then add 10% and send that to OzGov. I suspect that Amazon doesn't wish to create a precedent that would see it liable for collecting state taxes in the US (which would also be trivially easy). More of an issue for smaller retailers though and I suspect that a lot of them would just say too hard.

hoffy · May 31, 2018

paul ewins said:
I'm pretty sure Amzon could make it work, after all it is simply if shipping address = Australia then add 10% and send that to OzGov. I suspect that Amazon doesn't wish to create a precedent that would see it liable for collecting state taxes in the US (which would also be trivially easy). More of an issue for smaller retailers though and I suspect that a lot of them would just say too hard.

This - I rarely by from Amazon, but if they don't want to make it work, what are the chances Freestyle, or even B&H, AG in the UK or Macodirect in Germany can make this work? I suspect that we are going to see a lot of "Does not ship to Australia" on a lot of online businesses.

Toyo · May 31, 2018

Amazon has set up in Australia and will continue to serve the Australian market from this base.
I expect, that in time, the numbers of different items available will continue to grow.
T

Poisson Du Jour · May 31, 2018

Toyo said:
Amazon has set up in Australia and will continue to serve the Australian market from this base.
I expect, that in time, the numbers of different items available will continue to grow.
T

The Australian site has nowhere near the depth and breadth of the US marketplace from which the majority of Australians purchase goods. Photographers are often on the lookout for specialist items that are just not available here in Australia and can really only be sourced through B&H, Freestyle, eBay or Amazon, among others. I don't see how B&H, Freestyle and the like can make the situation appealing when behemoths like Amazon and eBay saw the writing on the wall more than 12 months ago.

It is believed that eBay is considering following Amazon's lead. If that does come it is a double bummer. Not even crafty geoblocking can get around this GST legislation now.

The new 10% GST regime specifies that everything purchased online, whether from overseas or locally, will be charged 10% GST. For me, like so many others, it the impost of GST on hitherto GST-free items bought locally that is the biggest irritation. The change will require significant revisions and potential complicationto the way prices and postage are calculated on eBay and Amazon.

hoffy · May 31, 2018

I agree. This is the thin end of the wedge.

Poisson Du Jour · May 31, 2018

mshchem said:
So I look online GST is 10%. Is that it or is there other sales taxes. In theory this makes a lot if sense. In practice you are probably just going to have more cost , less selection and even shoddy goods. I am for an even playing field, but the process is bullshit .

At the moment purchases up to AUD$1,000 are GST-free. From July 1st, all puchases irrespective of the amount, local or international, will be charged +10% GST. Effectively, the kindly AUD$1000 threshold we have enjoyed since the introduction of GST will be scrapped.

At the moment, Customs collects tax and charges on goodies valued above the current $1,000 threshold; that means they usually message you for a visit to the gate at e.g. Tullamarine (inbound goods holding area for Customs), to go through the paperwork/declarations and sign-off. Easy enough right now, but things are about to get a whole lot more bugger-all.

There has been no detailed position statement from eBay in Australia about how this GST will be applied to purchases made through its sites. That leads me to suspect a pull-out could well be on the table.

More about the Amazon block:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-...alia-shopping-deal-how-it-affects-you/9820312

awty · May 31, 2018

Sure will be a vote winner.
Think the Amazon move is as much about protecting there investment in Australia. Have to see how it will effect other overseas retailers, most likely it will be too much of a pain. The cost of postage has gone through the roof lately (which is included in GST?), The only one with reasonable costs still is b&h. Freestyle wanted $90 US for the last shop basket I rung up with, went with b&h for $50 AUD.

hoffy · May 31, 2018

From what I understand, the other mob weren't against it either.

AgX · May 31, 2018

Without knowing these new regulations I do not see how it would affect an overseas seller (which Amazon likely is not).
Here in the EU an overseas seller would send to Europe as to their local customers, but without their local tax. The latter is the only hassle they have to undergo, handling tax and non-tax orders. The tax and customs fee then would be taken from the customer by the respective customs authority in the EU-country.

I do not see that it should be different in Australia.
The difference with Amazon is that it likely appears as australian company. Here in Germany Amazon is accused of assisting chinese retailers, doing business over Amazon, in evading one billion tax per year from the german fiscal service. As Amazon helps them in in veiling the import.

Poisson Du Jour · May 31, 2018

awty said:
The cost of postage has gone through the roof lately (which is included in GST?),

No great surprise that Australia Post has profited very, very nicely from ridiculous postage costs through eBay. The two of them are cosy bedfellows, just as, once-upon-a-time, PayPal was (before restrictions on paying just via PayPal were removed).

Poisson Du Jour · May 31, 2018

hoffy said:
From what I understand, the other mob weren't against it either.

I hope all their chooks turn into emus and kick their dunnies down.
(Whoever dreamed up that is a bloody legend!).

awty · May 31, 2018

hoffy said:
From what I understand, the other mob weren't against it either.

Yes, but they soon change there minds if they think it will pick up a couple of votes.
Lots of people buy from overseas what isn't readily available here and once they realize they can't get it anymore they will be upset and will blame who ever is in power.
I dont believe the government has properly understood the consequences, or they are just going to go soflty and not implement it fully.
Who knows we'll just have to find out.
Im pretty stocked up till the end of the year, but not sure whether to make another big purchase before the proverbial hits the fan.

hoffy · May 31, 2018

I'll be doing an order over the next few days.

The worse for me is paper - this is where the biggest disparity in price comes. The problem is I am in a testing phase and not 100% sure what stocks I want - I also have a lot of paper sitting on the shelf and I really shouldn't buy any more!

FujiLove · May 31, 2018

In the UK, we have to pay 20% sales tax (VAT) plus customs duty, which is around 5% to 8%, on all goods imported from overseas. This is collected directly by Parcelforce who mange normal household packages coming from abroad. They send a bill in the post which can be paid online. They also add their own handling charges. All together, this adds roughly 30% to the price of imported goods. Also, the Pound has collapsed since the Brexit vote, so that's added another 10% to the cost of buying from the Euro zone. It's therefore no longer economical for me to buy film, paper and chemicals from places like MacoDirect in Germany...and as for US and Japanese eBay sales...forget it! I guess it's all good news for UK retailers, but as usual it's ordinary consumers losing out.

10% tax to pay? Think yourself lucky!

awty · May 31, 2018

Its not the 10% thats the problem its the fact that overseas retailers are expected to collect the tax and that will be too much trouble for a lot of retailers so they wont sell to us.
Beyond medium format there is next to no local retailer's and paper is pretty limited to Ilford with 100% mark up.

hoffy · May 31, 2018

Ok, it's not about the tax. 10% is nothing.

It's about an international retailer going "too hard, won't ship to your address".

Amazon is the first to announce this. I suspect many will do the same, meaning we will be forced to buy limited choices from local retailers.

And I agree - Paper is by far the worse, followed by sheet film.

hoffy · May 31, 2018

And here is the other thing that really gets up my goat.

I saw a cross to Gerry Harvey on the ABC news this arvo. He was as proud as punch, giving his 5 cents worth and saying that its a win for Australian retailers an that Amazon had it coming.. Where was he? At the Magic Millions Thoroughbred auctions.

Life must be tough for the old prick.

Nodda Duma · May 31, 2018

A 10% tarriff on all imports, eh? That’s nothing new. What is new is the Australian government reaching outside their jurisdiction to demand payment from a foreign entity. That’s the type of thing to get a foreign government involved and telling Australia to go pound sand.

Actually, it’s a familiar story here in the US: States are constantly trying to tax interstate commerce and always get slapped down by the federal government because it would be such a drag on the economy.

Michael W · May 31, 2018

hoffy said:
Ok, it's not about the tax. 10% is nothing.

It's about an international retailer going "too hard, won't ship to your address".

Amazon is the first to announce this. I suspect many will do the same, meaning we will be forced to buy limited choices from local retailers.

I'm not sure what is going to happen. Amazon had to do something as they now have an Australian presence. I think that retailers like B&H who have no business presence in Australia can just pretend the law doesn't exist. They are under no obligation to follow Australian tax laws. I can't see them collecting GST for the govt, and I can't see them refusing to sell to Australia, so fingers crossed we can buy from them as normal.

hoffy · May 31, 2018

Since a few Non-Aussies are reading this, I'll do a TL;DR

The current situation that everything over $1000 AUD is subject to 10% GST, which is collected by customs. The reason $1000 was chosen is that to recover GST on purchases of less than that was deemed as to be not worth it - basically the cost of recovering the monies was more than the income.

Over the last few years, a group led by Billionaire retailer, Gerry Harvey, have been lobbying the government to apply our standard GST to ALL purchases made overseas. 12 months ago, it was introduced into our parliament and was passed. There was a delay in implementing the law, as it was unclear how the funds were to be collected.

In the meantime, customs and the freight companies have refused to do it, so it has been determined that any overseas retailers that does more that $75K AUD in trade to Australia has to collect the 10% GST, to be payable to the Australian Government.

A whole bunch of internationals have gone "Are you serious?", with Amazon US and UK basically going "sorry, no more purchases for Australian residents" from the 1st of July. We do have Amazon in Australia, but their range is limited and their prices are the same as retail. (some have suggested that this could actually be a ploy to force Australians to purchase from their local arm).

Now, a whole bunch of us are a bit concerned that since Amazon has decided its too hard, that the chances are that the likes of B&H and Freestyle (not that anyone uses Freestyle anymore) will follow suit.

As I have said above, its not about the tax, its about the limited choice and being forced to only be able to buy from Australian retailers.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/International-tax-for-business/GST-on-low-value-imported-goods/

Ian Grant · May 31, 2018

Amazon.com don't ship to the UK, There are companies offering Virtual US addresses to get around this, I don't use them though.

B&H and a few other companies offer the option of pre-paying the UK Import Duty and VAT which saves the fee we get charged here by the delivery service, Post Office, UPS, DHL etc, to cover their costs of handling the taxes. Perhaps it's worth contacting B&H to see if there's anything similar they can do with Australian customers.

Ian

hoffy · May 31, 2018

I haven't contacted B&H yet, but someone else on a Facebook group I am part of has. It will be curious how they respond. Out of all the O/S retailers I have dealt with over the years, B&H have certainly been the most accommodating when it comes to selling to Aussies.

Well, that's it for Australians buying goods from overseas

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