Weird yellow spots on C41 film

Daniel Huiting · Nov 30, 2016

Hi all! I've recently had issues with yellow spots on my film. I believe this batch was from the Unicolor Press Kit, used twice before and replenished with 750 ml of new stock (so this batch was 500ml of developer and blix that had been used twice, and 750 ml of new developer/blix, mixed to make 1250 ml of working solution)

I'm wondering if using the developer and blix more than once is the issue?

It says in the manual you can use chemistry for certain number of films, so I've been using it until I hit that number. (I've heard of people using it much longer as well, with decent results.)

Attached is an example:

Photo Engineer · Nov 30, 2016

Usage is not the problem, however I cannot tell from the positive image above if the cyan + magenta is high or the yellow is low. I would guess the former, but not sure. This is a hard one to diagnose. Is there anything floating in the developer or bleach? Any sediment?

PE

Daniel Huiting · Nov 30, 2016

Thanks PE, it's 800T cinema film with the remjet removed and bulk loaded for use in still cameras, and the music video we were shooting was a black and white video so we were hitting the talent with a mix of tungsten and daylight flo sources, so color temp didn't matter due to the video being black and white, so that's why the skin tones might be weird, if that's what you're referring to?

I have already dumped the developer/blix, so I guess all I can do is watch for the problem again and save the developer and blix so I can look to see if there is any sediment or anything else floating in there. But it's good to know that the usage isn't issue.

My washing process for jugs/containers, tanks, reels, etc has been to fill them 3-4 times with the hottest water I can stand. I don't use any soap or anything. Does this seem an acceptable method?

Daniel Huiting · Nov 30, 2016

Thanks PE, it's 800T cinema film with the remjet removed and bulk loaded for use in still cameras, and the music video we were shooting was a black and white video so we were hitting the talent with a mix of tungsten and daylight flo sources, so color temp didn't matter due to the video being black and white, so that's why the skin tones might be weird, if that's what you're referring to?

I have already dumped the developer/blix, so I guess all I can do is watch for the problem again and save the developer and blix so I can look to see if there is any sediment or anything else floating in there. But it's good to know that the usage isn't issue.

My washing process for jugs/containers, tanks, reels, etc has been to fill them 3-4 times with the hottest water I can stand. I don't use any soap or anything. Does this seem an acceptable method?

Daniel Huiting · Nov 30, 2016

Thanks PE, it's 800T cinema film with the remjet removed and bulk loaded for use in still cameras, and the music video we were shooting was a black and white video so we were hitting the talent with a mix of tungsten and daylight flo sources, so color temp didn't matter due to the video being black and white, so that's why the skin tones might be weird, if that's what you're referring to?

I have already dumped the developer/blix, so I guess all I can do is watch for the problem again and save the developer and blix so I can look to see if there is any sediment or anything else floating in there. But it's good to know that the usage isn't issue.

My washing process for jugs/containers, tanks, reels, etc has been to fill them 3-4 times with the hottest water I can stand. I don't use any soap or anything. Does this seem an acceptable method?

Daniel Huiting · Nov 30, 2016

Thanks PE, it's 800T cinema film with the remjet removed and bulk loaded for use in still cameras, and the music video we were shooting was a black and white video so we were hitting the talent with a mix of tungsten and daylight flo sources, so color temp didn't matter due to the video being black and white, so that's why the skin tones might be weird, if that's what you're referring to?

I have already dumped the developer/blix, so I guess all I can do is watch for the problem again and save the developer and blix so I can look to see if there is any sediment or anything else floating in there. But it's good to know that the usage isn't issue.

My washing process for jugs/containers, tanks, reels, etc has been to fill them 3-4 times with the hottest water I can stand. I don't use any soap or anything. Does this seem an acceptable method?

Daniel Huiting · Nov 30, 2016

Thanks PE, it's 800T cinema film with the remjet removed and bulk loaded for use in still cameras, and the music video we were shooting was a black and white video so we were hitting the talent with a mix of tungsten and daylight flo sources, so color temp didn't matter due to the video being black and white, so that's why the skin tones might be weird, if that's what you're referring to?

I have already dumped the developer/blix, so I guess all I can do is watch for the problem again and save the developer and blix so I can look to see if there is any sediment or anything else floating in there. But it's good to know that the usage isn't issue.

My washing process for jugs/containers, tanks, reels, etc has been to fill them 3-4 times with the hottest water I can stand. I don't use any soap or anything. Does this seem an acceptable method?

FujiLove · Nov 30, 2016

My first thought was left-over remjet being deposited on the emulsion. I had a couple of frames like this on my last roll of 250D. How did you remove it?

wombat2go · Nov 30, 2016

What yellow spots are you referring to in your example?

iandvaag · Nov 30, 2016

FujiLove said:
left-over remjet being deposited on the emulsion

My suspicion as well.

Photo Engineer · Nov 30, 2016

Yep, most likely rem-jet. Probably too late to fix the problem.

PE

FujiLove · Dec 1, 2016

Rem-jet washes off the Fuji stocks (such as Eterna 250D) quite easily, but the Kodak rem-jet seems to be thicker (I'm saying higher quality!) and is harder to remove. I spend a while wiping the film with a very soft microfibre cloth underwater in a smooth sided sink (post-development, pre-stabilizer) to remove the last traces. I change the water quite a few times during this process to keep as much away from the film as possible. Last time I was lazy and ended up with spots on three or four frames at one end of the roll.

Daniel Huiting · Dec 1, 2016

First of all, my apologies for my response posting about five times in a row. I kept hitting the "post" button on my phone and nothing would happen, so apparently it eventually did post every single time.

As for the remjet, the film I purchased was from Cinestill, and they claim that they remove the remjet for you so by the time I get to film it is already been removed.

If it is something as simple as me doing some process to remove any remnants of remjet that the company that I have purchased the film from has missed, what would be the best way for me to do this before developing my film?

@wombat2go, if you look at the photo full screen, they are everywhere. Look around the talent's head, and on her cheeks (especially her right cheek (camera left cheek))

Also, so far the only C 41 kits I have been able to find online are the press kits. I bought an Arista kit that has three different liquids to make the developer and two liquids to make the blix, so that seemed better than the unicolor kit which literally just has one powder for the developer and a part a and B for the blix.

I read on A forum somewhere that using Blix is bad because it is pretty unstable, and it is much better to use the bleach and to fix in two separate steps, but I can't find anywhere to buy these chemicals in the USA (since they can't be flown). Can you guys recommend anything? Or comment on this in general? Thanks!

Photo Engineer · Dec 1, 2016

The Kodak and Fuji Bleach and Fix are available many places in the US, but that is NOT your problem. It is most likely unremoved rem-jet. We even had problems with it from time to time at EK when doing lab processes.

PE

Anon Ymous · Dec 1, 2016

I've had spots like these (and worse) on my film when I used a boiler to quickly heat water to wash C41 film. Of course I live in a hard water area and the boiler already had chalky deposits. The boiler was covered inside with a white powder. After the film dries it sticks very, very well to it and I couldn't really remove it. Perhaps I could reimmerse my film in stop bath (acid) and dissolve these deposits, but I'm too lazy and couldn't be bothered.

Daniel Huiting · Dec 1, 2016

OK, I will look into the remjet issue. In the meantime, I will contact the manufacturer of the film and explain the situation to them, and perhaps they can look into their quality control process while simultaneously sending me another roll or two of free film as a replacement for the film that I already bought from them that has been ruined by the yellow spots. Thank you all for your responses, I very much appreciate it!

Daniel Huiting · Dec 1, 2016

The company responded and said their QC was extremely tight and it couldn't be their fault, but I had other kinds of C41 film in this same batch, and the problem is only happening with the CineStill film. Here is another example shot from a separate roll of CineStill 800T, from the same batch. So it has to be something going on specifically with this brand of film.

Photo Engineer · Dec 1, 2016

Rem-jet.

FujiLove · Dec 2, 2016

Sorry to say that if you were running the CineStill and 'normal' film through the same chemicals it's almost certainly the rem-jet. It's quite disappointing to hear that CineStill has fobbed you off, particularly as the only real difference between their film and 'raw' movie stock is the rem-jet removal. They charge a huge mark-up for that service. I assume you sent them an example image and explained your process? Do you have any unused film from the same batch? If you do, I guess the acid test will be to send that to a respected processing lab and see if the problem persists. If it does, I would make a note of the batch number so other people can we warned about the problem.

kb3lms · Dec 2, 2016

Make sure with those unicolor kits that everything is thoroughly dissolved each time it is used. I used to use those and found that after some time powder either reappeared or wasn't dissolved right in the first place and the undissolved grains(?) clumped together after some time. The liquid kits are much better. But the result was some improperly developed spots on the negative.

Could also be remjet like mentioned above. Cinestill seems like they have a good reputation but things can and do go wrong.

Daniel Huiting · Dec 2, 2016

Their response:

"Daniel,

I see what you are talking about and it appears that there is some development or emulsion issue in the first image. This could have happened on our end but it is more likely something was on the film or in your developer during processing that slowed development on the surface (blue) layer. Possibly moisture or something else on the surface of the emulsion. Definitely not remjet though. That would be much messier.

The second one is from an older roll I assume? The stripe coming down looks like a defect possibly caused from a chemical we use when removing the remjet in the dark coming through a perforation hole and dripping down the film. We have seen it occur on a few rolls in the past but addressed the cause. This roll must have slipped through our QC when dealing with the issue. I am sorry.

I will send you two new rolls. I would be sure to pre-soak your film when processing and watch out for any contaminants. What address can we send the film to?"

So, at least they are sending me new film. If the new film doesn't have this problem, then I'll continue buying.

@FujiLove : Unfortunately I don't have any more film from that order. That would have been nice/easy way to get to the bottom of this though.

FujiLove · Dec 4, 2016

Daniel Huiting said:
Their response:

"Daniel,

I see what you are talking about and it appears that there is some development or emulsion issue in the first image. This could have happened on our end but it is more likely something was on the film or in your developer during processing that slowed development on the surface (blue) layer. Possibly moisture or something else on the surface of the emulsion. Definitely not remjet though. That would be much messier.

The second one is from an older roll I assume? The stripe coming down looks like a defect possibly caused from a chemical we use when removing the remjet in the dark coming through a perforation hole and dripping down the film. We have seen it occur on a few rolls in the past but addressed the cause. This roll must have slipped through our QC when dealing with the issue. I am sorry.

I will send you two new rolls. I would be sure to pre-soak your film when processing and watch out for any contaminants. What address can we send the film to?"

So, at least they are sending me new film. If the new film doesn't have this problem, then I'll continue buying.

@FujiLove : Unfortunately I don't have any more film from that order. That would have been nice/easy way to get to the bottom of this though.

Good to hear they have at least sent you new film.

Daniel Huiting · Dec 4, 2016

@FujiLove Yes, it seems they are on the level. They also have offered to develop another roll I shot from the same batch (for free) and have offered to pay for shipping both ways, so it seems they want to get to the bottom of this as well.

Weird yellow spots on C41 film

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency