Weird spots on prints! Argh.

Chadinko · May 8, 2016

I have been trying for hours (and wasting paper) trying to get some clean prints of a couple of negatives and I'm plagued with dark (not black) spots on the prints. Normally I'd think they're scratches or pinholes but they are not; the negative is clean, my enlarger lens is spotless and dust on the multigrade filter would show up as white, right?

The weird thing about these spots is that they seem to migrate, and no two prints are the same. Here are scans of part of the prints, and you can see the spots and how they aren't often in the same places on the prints. They are the same negative, all printed within a few minutes of each other at essentially the same settings on the enlarger.

Before I pull my hair out completely, does anyone have ANY idea as to what these spots are and what I can do to get rid of them?

If anyone needs them, the specs are:

Beseler 45MXII, Aristo D2 cold light head
Schneider Componon 80mm lens at f/13 (lens is spotless)
#1 or 1 -1/2 Ilford multigrade filter
Ilford PQ Universal developer
Kodak stop
Ilford Rapid fixer (all chemicals mixed about 10 PM last night into brown bottles and straight into my mini-fridge
Arista.edu 100 120 film (negative is clean)
Ilford Multigrade Satin paper

MattKing · May 8, 2016

Chadinko said:
chemicals mixed about 10 PM last night into brown bottles and straight into my mini-fridge

Emphasis added.

Why are you refrigerating chemicals?

Chadinko · May 8, 2016

MattKing said:
Emphasis added.

Why are you refrigerating chemicals?

Because I print in the garage and it gets really really hot in there (like about 120 degrees fahrenheit in the summer, or more) -- I always assumed that heat and chemicals don't get along at all so I have a small fridge set at its warmest level to keep the chemicals at as constant a temperature as I can while they're stored. It's not very cold in the fridge, just more of a climate control thing. I don't print in the summer for that reason, just cover the enlarger and let it sit.

Is that a bad thing? I'm kind of a newbie at the home darkroom thing; I don't really have a place in the house to store the chemicals, though I could probably carve out a spot if I needed to.

MattKing · May 8, 2016

The fridge may be too cold. Protecting the chemicals (and paper!) from heat is good. But some chemicals may not respond well to cold storage.

I would suspect the developer.

One of those inexpensive fridge thermometer would give you some useful information.

Try a cooler with a small ice pack to keep temperatures moderate rather than cold.

Luis-F-S · May 8, 2016

Looks like a cold light head issue. Print without a negative and see if the pattern shows up.

Chadinko · May 8, 2016

MattKing said:
The fridge may be too cold. Protecting the chemicals (and paper!) from heat is good. But some chemicals may not respond well to cold storage.

I would suspect the developer.

One of those inexpensive fridge thermometer would give you some useful information.

Try a cooler with a small ice pack to keep temperatures moderate rather than cold.

Hmm. I'll mix up some new developer at room temperature and see what happens. The fridge isn't very cold, probably in the low 70s F. I'll have to get a thermometer though.

The thing is though I suspected the developer last night when I first encountered this problem and I mixed new. The spots are still occurring.

Luis-F-S said:
Looks like a cold light head issue. Print without a negative and see if the pattern shows up.

I exposed a piece of paper and the pattern didn't show up. The problem is that the spots are always in different places on the prints. Would the cold light head do that? I would think if it was a light issue the spots would be on the same places on the prints regardless of even what negative I was using.

Bill Burk · May 8, 2016

It looks like slightly different cropping for each shot. Did you pull and clean and replace the negative between shots.

They move, but not much. Maybe there is something on the plastic covering the grid of the Aristo D2 that acts like tiny bubbles (that act like lenses)?

Truzi · May 8, 2016

Is there anything rotating between prints? Perhaps the focus on the lens? Trying looking at the shots side-by-side and see if you can detect patterns (the intensity of the spots may vary, so look close) - try looking for triangles to see if the dots stay put relative to each other. I think I see a rotated pattern between two shots, but can't be sure.

When you did the blank sheet, did you expose just like you did with a negative? In other words, empty carrier in the enlarger (but the same focus and aperture), filter in place, etc.
Did you try printing without the filter just to see if the dots persist?
Is the negative carrier glassless? (I'm sure others here know the model & possibilities, I don't.)
Is there anything that could be reflecting/defracting even an imperceptible amount of light?

Chadinko · May 8, 2016

Slightly different crop, yes. I've cleaned that negative a few times, and it's clean. Some of the spots seem to be staying in similar locations, but others come and go seemingly randomly and I can't predict when.

I've not looked at the covering of the head. I'll look. It's just manifested itself in the last day or so; up until now I've never had a problem with spots on my prints.

Bill Burk · May 8, 2016

I was thinking some kind of spray until I noticed the spots weren't completely random and not completely in different places. They seem to be in constellations...

They might change with changes in f/stop... Sounds like Truzi's onto something, look around and see... Gut still tells me you should look at the light source. Maybe that white diffuse plastic has bubbles in it.

winger · May 8, 2016

Bill Burk said:
......... Maybe that white diffuse plastic has bubbles in it.

It should need to be something that's letting extra light through - ie. not dust. Dark spots are normally dust that got on the film before the shot was made, and they don't move like yours are. You mention you're using Ilford contrast filters - above or below? Any chance they have tiny holes? Yeah, wicked tiny, which makes it not as likely. But I can't think of anything else.

Patrick Robert James · May 8, 2016

I think it is either your developer or paper. It can't be your negative since the spots move and it isn't your head. The spots are sharp so they would have to be on the same plane as the neg which doesn't seem to be the case since they move around. That leaves a chemical or paper problem. Change out your developer and/or paper and that should solve it.

paul ron · May 9, 2016

chek the difuser for dirt?

vc filter?

i dont think you're using conensers with the cold head.

ParkerSmithPhoto · May 9, 2016

is this paper old, out of date? I've seen something similar with old papers.

Thomas Bertilsson · May 9, 2016

Mix new developer. Store chemistry in your house when you're not using them.
If that doesn't help, it's probably the paper. Develop an unexposed piece of paper if you still get the specks with new developer.

It cannot be in the lens or the enlarger because the specs show up in different spots each time, and not uniformly so.

Doremus Scudder · May 10, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Mix new developer. Store chemistry in your house when you're not using them.
If that doesn't help, it's probably the paper. Develop an unexposed piece of paper if you still get the specks with new developer.

It cannot be in the lens or the enlarger because the specs show up in different spots each time, and not uniformly so.

+1
Undissolved particles in the developer will cause such spots. Refrigerating the developer will cause solids to precipitate out... 1+1=2
The enlarger is the least likely culprit, especially since the spots are not in the same place. Defective paper is the next place to look. Burn a sheet and develop it blank and see if you get marks.

Best,

Doremus

Gerald C Koch · May 10, 2016

Where is the paper kept? Hopefully not in the garage.

Ian Grant · May 10, 2016

Doremus Scudder said:
+1
Undissolved particles in the developer will cause such spots. Refrigerating the developer will cause solids to precipitate out... 1+1=2
The enlarger is the least likely culprit, especially since the spots are not in the same place. Defective paper is the next place to look. Burn a sheet and develop it blank and see if you get marks.

Best,

Doremus

I agree, refrigerating the chemistry is quite likely the problem. I'd suggest warming the developer up to 25 maybe 30º C shake it then leaving it a while then filtering it through a coffee filter. Developers shouldn't be stored at less than 5ºC and a refrigerator is usually around 1.6ºC.

Ian

Thomas Bertilsson · May 10, 2016

Ian Grant said:
I agree, refrigerating the chemistry is quite likely the problem. I'd suggest warming the developer up to 25 maybe 30º C shake it then leaving it a while then filtering it through a coffee filter. Developers shouldn't be stored at less than 5ºC and a refrigerator is usually around 1.6ºC.

Ian

The OP has already qualified the fridge is set to about 70 degrees F, which is normal room temperature (about 21*C).

Ian Grant · May 10, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
The OP has already qualified the fridge is set to about 70 degrees F, which is normal room temperature (about 21*C).

Thanks I missed that bit However the OP isn't sure what temperature the refridgerator actually is and really needs to check. I'd still filter the developer as a precaution, I've seen something like this before with negatives rather than prints and it was particles in suspension in the developer, they lodge on the surface of the emulsion causing this effect.

Ian

Chadinko · May 10, 2016

Patrick Robert James said:
I think it is either your developer or paper. It can't be your negative since the spots move and it isn't your head. The spots are sharp so they would have to be on the same plane as the neg which doesn't seem to be the case since they move around. That leaves a chemical or paper problem. Change out your developer and/or paper and that should solve it.

I finally figured it out. I mixed up new chemistry and still got the spots. The problem is the paper... I bought a couple of boxes of paper though Amazon from some outfit in California and I think it was stored badly or really old or something. The second box of paper was even worse -- grey edges and absolutely zero contrast. So I contacted the seller and they emailed me a Fedex return label and off it goes in today's shipment for a refund. Ugh. Back to buying from B&H. I would buy from that other company again, just not paper. Or film. Or chemicals. Maybe a shutter release plunger or something that is impervious to heat.

And yes, the fridge is sitting right at 70 degrees, so it's all good

Thanks for all the ideas. Gave me something chew on while being frustrated.

Thomas Bertilsson · May 10, 2016

Chadinko said:
Back to buying from B&H. I would buy from that other company again, just not paper. Or film. Or chemicals. Maybe a shutter release plunger or something that is impervious to heat.

At least you got it figured out! That's nice. And B&H is not the only game in town. Freestyle is closer to you than most other places, and is a source that is a little bit more expensive, but maybe a better bet for the future of the darkroom.

Chadinko · May 10, 2016

Yeah Freestyle is 12 bucks more a box for the Ilford 11x14 paper I've been printing with, and I get free shipping. I buy my film from Freestyle, though, because I am really digging the Arista/Fomapan in the 120, 2-1/4 x 3-1/4 and 4x5.

I just have stuff delivered to my workplace so it stays in the heat as little as possible since my delivery tends to be about 9 AM.

Weird spots on prints! Argh.

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