Weird mark on color negative scans

wang_sd · May 1, 2019

Hi there,

Recently I started shooting films and scanning my negs using my EPSON V600 scanner. However, after working with a few rolls of color negative (fuji c200 and c400), I found some weird marks which look like transparent worms wriggling on my scanned images. They made my digital scans awful to look at and I have been getting this problem with almost every color neg roll. Attached are some scans with this issue.

I did some searching on Google and doubt if it is caused static discharge. However, I am not sure about this and want to know if someone here has an idea of what's going on with my negs.

Thanks!

Chenhao

Kino · May 1, 2019

I would be inclined to say it's not static; looks like the film got humid and stuck together.

1. Was the film fresh?
2. How was it stored before and after being exposed?
3. How long before processing after shooting?

MattKing · May 1, 2019

Welcome to Photrio.
Can you see the marks on the (magnified) negatives themselves, or are they a product of the scanning process?

Wallendo · May 1, 2019

Is digital ice turned on? Sometimes when scanning a dirty negative, the dirt and dust removal process can produce artifacts like this.
The patterns seen on your scans follow the general shapes I would expect with fibers stuck on the negative.
Try cleaning the negatives and re-scanning, or turning off digital ice.

wang_sd · May 1, 2019

Kino said:
I would be inclined to say it's not static; looks like the film got humid and stuck together.

1. Was the film fresh?
2. How was it stored before and after being exposed?
3. How long before processing after shooting?

Yeah, these rolls are fresh and I sent them immediately after I finish shooting (max. 1-2 days after exposure). I store unexposed rolls in the fridge and keep 1-2 rolls at room temp in case I need them.

wang_sd · May 1, 2019

MattKing said:
Welcome to Photrio.
Can you see the marks on the (magnified) negatives themselves, or are they a product of the scanning process?

That's a good point, my loupe is on the way and will be delivered soon. I will inspect these frames again to see if there are physical damage to them.

------- update:

I just checked the "bad" frames of my neg. It turns out that there is something on my neg: transparent marks (looks like water spot or chemical residue from the process). I wonder if I can clean it up with alcohol or distilled water. By the way, should I tell this to my processing lab?

wang_sd · May 1, 2019

Wallendo said:
Is digital ice turned on? Sometimes when scanning a dirty negative, the dirt and dust removal process can produce artifacts like this.
The patterns seen on your scans follow the general shapes I would expect with fibers stuck on the negative.
Try cleaning the negatives and re-scanning, or turning off digital ice.

Yes, I did turn on digital ICE during scanning. Let me try it again without that.

shutterfinger · May 1, 2019

wang_sd said:
It turns out that there is something on my neg: transparent marks (looks like water spot or chemical residue from the process). I wonder if I can clean it up with alcohol or distilled water. By the way, should I tell this to my processing lab?

The last step of the C41 process is Stabilizer. The Stabilizer is similar to PhotoFlo. Isopropyl Alcohol should be safe. Distilled water is fine to mix stabilizer or photoflo in but I would not use it by itself on color materials.

Show the bad negatives to the lab before cleaning.

MattKing · May 1, 2019

shutterfinger said:
he Stabilizer is similar to PhotoFlo. Isopropyl Alcohol should be safe.

Caution - Stabilizer is more than Photo-flo or Isopropyl Alcohol - it also includes a bactericide (sp). If you re-wash a colour negative or slide, you need to re-stabilize it as well.

jtk · May 1, 2019

1) delivered to you and stored in flimsy plastic sleeve
2) dirty chemistry (Ice only deals with surface stuff).

wang_sd · May 1, 2019

jtk said:
1) delivered to you and stored in flimsy plastic sleeve
2) dirty chemistry (Ice only deals with surface stuff).

For 1), I just asked them to "develop only" for my color negs. As a result, processed negs are returned as a curled roll (not cut at all) in a canister (which was for 135 film rolls).
I guess 2) is the real cause of this, I should have a talk with them.

Ces1um · May 2, 2019

wang_sd said:
For 1), I just asked them to "develop only" for my color negs. As a result, processed negs are returned as a curled roll (not cut at all) in a canister (which was for 135 film rolls).
I guess 2) is the real cause of this, I should have a talk with them.

I find this is the discouraging part of film photography. You care for your camera, you go through great lengths to pick your subject and compose your shot, you check and double check your exposure settings, you keep your film in pristine condition before, during and after the shot. Then you pass it to some employee who just doesn't give a sh*t, or to a lab who can't justify keeping chemicals and machinery in top working order due to insufficient profit/volume because of costs. I understand why so many people on photrio develop and print their own work rather than handing it over to someone who won't put the same amount of care into your work as you have. Good luck and I would definitely bring it to the attention of the lab. Ask to talk to the people who will actually be processing the film and not just the person working at the counter.

Kino · May 2, 2019

We have had success removing surface irregularities by simply re-processing the film. You might ask them to run it back through the processor, hopefully free of charge...

Hopefully you have not cut them down to strips yet.

If you are going to use an outside lab, you should get into the practice of immediately doing a quality control check before cutting down your negs. Examine the base and emulsion side of the film for scratches and spotting, as well as for proper density.

I will also add, working with the lab, rather than being hostile to them (not that I am implying you would be) most often results in getting improved service and better results. Just being upset doesn't do anyone any favors...

jtk · May 2, 2019

I think you should look for a different lab... Also, there's no reason to store film in a refrigerator unless you're holding vast quantities like treasures. Refrigeration can lead to condensation...

wang_sd · May 2, 2019

jtk said:
I think you should look for a different lab... Also, there's no reason to store film in a refrigerator unless you're holding vast quantities like treasures. Refrigeration can lead to condensation...

LOL, only if I can find another one that's near me. This lab is by far the only one I can find. The price is $5 per C-41 roll dev only. For now, I am storing exposed rolls carefully so I can start C-41 by myself. (If they are not doing good cleaning for my film, why not process it myself? The cost is almost the same, but if I can push chemicals to their max, I can save about $1 per roll. I am ready for the color shift due to bad temp control, but at least I can clean my film as clean as possible before stabilizing stage. )

As for fridge things, condensation can be avoided if you don't open the canister for 35mm rolls. 120 rolls are packed individually in foils, so they should be definitely okay in the fridge. Get a ziplock and squeeze as much as you can, then throw some desiccant (drying agent) in the bag. Wrap it another bag and seal the opening to prevent moist air from getting in. So far no problem with my rolls.

wang_sd · May 2, 2019

Ces1um said:
I find this is the discouraging part of film photography. You care for your camera, you go through great lengths to pick your subject and compose your shot, you check and double check your exposure settings, you keep your film in pristine condition before, during and after the shot. Then you pass it to some employee who just doesn't give a sh*t, or to a lab who can't justify keeping chemicals and machinery in top working order due to insufficient profit/volume because of costs. I understand why so many people on photrio develop and print their own work rather than handing it over to someone who won't put the same amount of care into your work as you have. Good luck and I would definitely bring it to the attention of the lab. Ask to talk to the people who will actually be processing the film and not just the person working at the counter.

Finding a lab giving consistent and satisfying results is too hard for me. Even worse, I don't have any choice other than this one. I will just store my C-41 rolls and try to develop my self.

Kino · May 2, 2019

Well, if you don't bring it to their attention, you have no chance of improving their service.

It might be futile, but you never know...

wang_sd · May 2, 2019

Kino said:
Well, if you don't bring it to their attention, you have no chance of improving their service.

It might be futile, but you never know...

Yeah, I will try to tell them. Not being offensive, but I am a bit difficult to get in touch with them because I do not communicate with them directly. The lab is not in town, and I drop my rolls at our local camera shop and the staff there send and retrieve negs for me. I will firstly talk with the local shop to figure out what to do next.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

shutterfinger · May 2, 2019

If you are going through a camera store then bring the problem to the attention of the store.
There a several mail order labs doing excellent work. The cost of postage both ways is the main expense over what you're paying now.

Weird mark on color negative scans

wang_sd

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