weird looking 4x5 film holders

TerryThomasAtlanta · Sep 17, 2005

I just received a shipment of two brand new 4x5 sheet film holders made by Tiltall. Bought them on eBay from Dave Riddle Company.

There is something weird about them - there is no ridge across the holders!

In my experience, there always has been a ridge which drops into a slot on the back of the LF camera. This does two things: it lets the photographer know the sheet film holder is in the correct position and then keeps it in place when the dark slide is withdrawn.

Has anyone else any experience with sheet film holders like these?

Thanks.

Terry Thomas
Atlanta, Georgia USA

See my recent stills from the set of the upcoming feature film "Psychopathia Sexualis" here: www.psychopathia.com

Mongo · Sep 17, 2005

If you search the web you'll find information on these. I was tempted to buy some once, but a quick Google search steered me away.

Be well.
Dave

John Kasaian · Sep 17, 2005

Since its going to be International Talk LIke A Pirate Day soon, I can only respond with:

Ahoy! Them thar tiltall dooble dirks be as sea werthy as a pair o' two dollar swap meet speedos. Arrrgh! They be about as useful as Nike sneakers on a mermaid! Arrrgh! Get yer booty back from them thar scallawags fer Ye sure won't be wantin' to hoist them thar holders into yer camera's poop deck iffen Ye be knowin' whats good for Ye---Arrrggggh!

OTOH maybe they'd work as picture frames.

bobfowler · Sep 17, 2005

John Kasaian said:
Since its going to be International Talk LIke A Pirate Day soon, I can only respond with:

Ahoy! Them thar tiltall dooble dirks be as sea werthy as a pair o' two dollar swap meet speedos. Arrrgh! They be about as useful as Nike sneakers on a mermaid! Arrrgh! Get yer booty back from them thar scallawags fer Ye sure won't be wantin' to hoist them thar holders into yer camera's poop deck iffen Ye be knowin' whats good for Ye---Arrrggggh!

OTOH maybe they'd work as picture frames.

Aye! Soon enough 'twill be Monday the 19th! 'Twas like only yesterday when we swilled the grog and danc'd on the quarter deck to the hornpipers tunes...

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 18, 2005

I have yet to hear any good explanation as to why those Tiltall holders exist. Either they were made for some very particular piece of equipment, or it's just a major manufacturing blunder. Really the only thing to do with them, ye maties, is put 'em in the scupper with a hose-pipe on 'em, early in the morning, arrrrrr (whatever the hell that means).

raucousimages · Sep 18, 2005

I have one use for bad, worn, broken or defective film holders. Cut a print to fit in the film slot and they make cool frames. I joked with one guy he could put his wife in one side and his girlfriend in the other and use the darkslide on the back to block one or the other. His wife is still not speaking to me.

Donald Qualls · Sep 18, 2005

raucousimages said:
His wife is still not speaking to me.

And the only reason *he* is, is because she's not speaking to him, either?

Paul Sorensen · Sep 19, 2005

The ad on eBay states that they have a toll free support line. I can just hear the calls "what the %&*&#$ am I supposed to do with these?" Hopefully they won't tell you to...er...walk the plank. Damn, that was actually a little bit painful.

Jerry Thirsty · Sep 19, 2005

I have a pair of these, and until I saw this thread I didn't know I had a problem. So I did google for them, and only came up with a photo.net thread about a loose middle plate and the missing ridge. They obviously aren't quite as well-designed as Fidelity/Lisco, but I can't get the middle plate to budge when I pull or push on it, and in the year or two that I've had them I've never had a negative ruined by a light leak with my Graphic View II. Perhaps they don't work for the majority of users (?) but I've never had a problem with mine.

Changeling1 · Sep 19, 2005

A well established camera store here in Hollywood was selling the two-holder set for $9.99 last year as a "close-out-item".
The eBay seller has thousands of them- a limitless supply or so he told me. I am stuck with SIX (three two-packs) of these brand new holders which I haven't bothered to use in light of what others are saying. I wish I'd noticed the missing ridge on the holders sooner. You have only 48 hrs. to return items to the ebay seller. I do, however, like the picture frame idea for all those photos that only warrant being displayed in small, cheap, plastic and yes, even odoriferous, frames! (The holders smell strongly like methane and roofing tar). VERY weird eBay item!

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 19, 2005

The lock rib on a filmholder does two things--it forms a light trap with the groove on the camera back, and it prevents the holder from slipping out of the back when the darkslide is removed. If you shoot mostly indoors and don't tend to have a lot of light falling in the back and don't do very long exposures, you may not notice a light leak, and if you've got a fairly tight back, then, you might not have to worry about the holder slipping out, but I still wouldn't deal with these things even if they were free.

Donald Qualls · Sep 19, 2005

With a little JB Weld, some plastic wrap, and a few hours, you could put ridges on your holders.

Use plastic wrap to line the slot in the camera back (carefully -- don't want the JB Weld making the holder a permanent attachment), fill the slot with freshly mixed JB Weld, and put the holder in place (carefully -- you want to lay it into the epoxy, not slide it over). Let the stuff cure, pull the holder out, peel the plastic off the JB Weld, and repeat as necessary.

The bad news is, with JB Weld, this will take one night per ridge applied. JB Qwik is similar, not quite as strong, and much faster; there are also epoxy putties that could be applied, pulled off almost as soon as the holder's been seated, and left to harden with the ridge side up; that would mean only two nights to do all the holders you have.

Of course, whether this is worth trying depends on your overall mechanical aptitude (gluing a holder to the camera with JB Weld would be VERY, VERY BAD), your budget, and your sense of whether it's better to fix stuff like this or destroy it so it can't prey on anyone else...

Depending what the holders are made of, it might be possible to do this much more quickly using plastic strip stock (Plastruct makes extruded strip in polystyrene and ABS in a huge variety of sizes and shapes, and it's fairly cheap) and super glue or solvent cement.

TerryThomasAtlanta · Sep 22, 2005

Update:

I've talked with Dave Riddle several times. He said he's sold a couple thousand and "you're the first one to mention this". (!)

Also said to try them and if I didn't like them to return them for a refund. No mention of 48 hours.

He also said he'd try to find out why there is no ridge.

The other thing that first jumped out at me is these are a pop-rivet construction. There are 2 rivets along each 5 inch side. While they are recessed it kind of bothers me that on a sunny day light MIGHT be able to bounce off the shiny surface of the rivets and fog the film. If I kept the holders I was going to fill the rivet recess with something like black fingernail polish.

All in all, I think I'll return them unused. (Sigh!)

Changeling1 · Sep 25, 2005

Maybe I CAN return the 6 (3 two-packs) that I have if he's allowing you to. These film holders are a miniscule part of Riddle's business- he's into high end professional radio and tv studio equipment. I've had mine on the shelf for about 6 months. But if Mr. Riddle is selling thousands of these holders without complaint or question from other LFers, I guess he won't mind taking back a few from us APUGers.

It's too bad though, these were the first "brand-new-never-used" film holders I had ever purchased! My used holders may not be pretty, but at least they have a ridge!

Bob F. · Sep 25, 2005

Would some strips of hardwood (model shop) and some epoxy or superglue do the job? Of course, they may have other "features" not as obvious and once you do that, no chance of a refund!

Cheers, Bob.

John Kasaian · Sep 25, 2005

Arrgh Matey! It be a sorry design...uh, well its not International Talk Like A Pirate Day anymore, so---

Hey, IMHO its not a good design & not worth spending your money or risking your film on. The idea of doing "ridge implants" might sound fun, and if they were good holders in the first place it may well be worth your time and effort to keep them usable, but they aren't.

You'll end up with enough worthless junk if you're an ebay addict (like I am) so return the holders if you have the opportunity.

My 2-cents.

weird looking 4x5 film holders

TerryThomasAtlanta

Mongo

John Kasaian

bobfowler

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

raucousimages

Donald Qualls

Paul Sorensen

Jerry Thirsty

Changeling1

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

Donald Qualls

TerryThomasAtlanta

Changeling1

Bob F.

John Kasaian

weird looking 4x5 film holders

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