Weird lines showing up on film when using FD 28mm?

agphotography · Feb 23, 2011

Has anyone seen something like this before?

Canon_T90_008 by Abram Goglanian, on Flickr
(please excuse the terrible scan, I just wanted to show the example)

I ran a test roll through my T90 and on a couple shots that were for sure with the 28mm (not all of them mind you) I noticed these lines. I've never seen anything like this before and I'm just curious what the cause could be.

Any thoughts?

polyglot · Feb 23, 2011

Wow - certainly looks like an optical effect given the circular symmetry, but they're dark...

agphotography · Feb 23, 2011

Any thoughts as to what it could be and why it wouldn't show up on every frame I used that lens for?

MattKing · Feb 23, 2011

You weren't shooting through a fence, were you?

It looks to me as if there is some obstruction in front of the lens.

Did you have a filter on the lens? A lens hood?

agphotography · Feb 23, 2011

Nope I was walking across the street. There's no filter OR lens hood on this particular lens.

Rol_Lei Nut · Feb 24, 2011

Did you scan the negative or first print it?
Enlarger condenser problem or maybe the scanner's light diffuser out of whack?

agphotography · Feb 24, 2011

This is actually on the film. I had it done at a shop but I did the scan myself on a flatbed. It showed up on the 4x6 test prints I got from the shop as well. It's faintly visible on a couple frames, but it's almost not noticeable. That's why I thought it was so strange that it was so heavily pronounced on this one frame (which thankfully isn't an important picture haha)

Could it have something to do with the processing they did?

benjiboy · Feb 24, 2011

I have a T90 and an FD 28mm lens, but have never seen any results like this, have you got the lens recently ? have you tried another lens ?

Markster · Feb 24, 2011

You don't remember seeing anything like that in the viewfinder? Not even a faint memory of some light/shadows in the eyepiece?

Try looking through the viewfinder, hit the stop-down button (whatever it's called, the DOF preview button) and see if you can spot it. Try all the different focal ranges and aperatures.

I would think something like that would be obvious at one point or another.

agphotography · Feb 25, 2011

Yeah that's the weird thing. I never saw the rings in the camera. However this was the first test roll using all this gear so if it was a pre-existing problem I don't know.

I just checked every single lens I have on my T90 looking straight into a light source at all apertures and there is nothing visible in the viewfinder, not even a hint or a trace of these rings.

Rol_Lei Nut · Feb 25, 2011

Does the partial, off-center ring in your image continue on the next (or previous) frame?
If so, do the pair make a perfect circle? Of what diameter?
Did you roll your own film?

I'm thinking a possible one-off light leak somewhere, through something having a fresnel lens pattern or a concentrically ribbed plastic cap (Developing machine? Tiny hole in film canister = interference patterns = DIY pinhole camera?).
A tiny, perfectly round hole on the camera back in a place not covered by the film pressure plate?
Does the camera has a film reminder window and what does it look like?

Brainstorming here...

benjiboy · Feb 25, 2011

Rol_Lei Nut said:
Does the partial, off-center ring in your image continue on the next (or previous) frame?
If so, do the pair make a perfect circle? Of what diameter?
Did you roll your own film?

I'm thinking a possible one-off light leak somewhere, through something having a fresnel lens pattern or a concentrically ribbed plastic cap (Developing machine? Tiny hole in film canister = interference patterns = DIY pinhole camera?).
A tiny, perfectly round hole on the camera back in a place not covered by the film pressure plate?
Does the camera has a film reminder window and what does it look like?

Brainstorming here...

It indeed has a film reminder window in the back that should have a square foam rubber light seal on it.

hpulley · Feb 25, 2011

As the T-90 has a vertical travel metal blind style shutter I suspect a problem like a hole in the shutter, perhaps one blade or is lose, they are held together with rivets, perhaps the rivet hole is now enlarged. Have a look at the shutter with the lens off and back open on bulb before, during and after exposure.

Harry (from flickr too, same advice here but in case others see this and want to comment in either location I've repeated it).

Why some shots and not others? Different shutter speeds I suspect. Put the camera in TV mode and run a roll of test film through using all film speeds to check that if you can't see a problem by inspection.

agphotography · Feb 25, 2011

Yeah I'm going to have to do more testing to try to get to the bottom of this. I really hope it's not the T90 though. I've already grown fond of the camera lol.

holmburgers · Feb 25, 2011

Rol_Lei Nut said:
Does the partial, off-center ring in your image continue on the next (or previous) frame?
If so, do the pair make a perfect circle? Of what diameter?

I think this is the most important question.

agphotography · Feb 25, 2011

Well the two frames that have the ring (the one shown is the worse of the two) they are separated by several frames. This was the 8th frame and the next one was the 25th frame.

Both happened to be when using the 28mm, not with the 50 or 100 that I also used. This is why I thought it was something involving the lens specifically.

hpulley · Feb 25, 2011

I hope you're right. If you look through the lens do you see anything weird? You'd probably have to stop it down. Have you used the 28mm lens on other FD bodies?

John Koehrer · Feb 25, 2011

It's dark on the print, so light on the negative
It's almost in focus so it's not on the lens.
Test the camera for something hanging from the mirror. Select a slow shutter speed and look through the mirror box from the back of the camera for something hanging.
If the camera won't allow you to take shots with the counter at zero, gently put a tooth pick in the counter release. Look at the top edge and there should be a protrusion that goes into the top light seal of the camera. When that's pushed in the counter should work.

MattKing · Feb 26, 2011

Any chance that the film contacted the side of a damp developing reel prior to development.

It has that shape.

2F/2F · Feb 26, 2011

Are the lines exactly the same in all the frames in which they appear?

If not, I am guessing a processing issue.

If so, something actually cast a shadow on those parts of the film during exposure.

Or...do you have long hair?

agphotography · Feb 26, 2011

No I don't have long hair (sometimes I wish I did). The lines looked like they were in the same place on the frame but they were much more pronounced on this shot. I'm not sure if something happened during development, I'll have to go back to the lab and talk to them to see what happened but I'm away right now so It'll have to be next week.

I just find it so odd that it only showed up with the 28mm yet I cannot seem to see anything wrong with the lens.

I've not tested any of this equipment yet, this was the first roll I ran through the T90 after receiving it, and I just got my light seal kits for my A-1 bodies the other day and haven't had a chance to shoot with them yet.

agphotography · Mar 4, 2011

Ok new discovery.

I think it is in fact somehow related to the T90. I shot another test roll and used all of my lenses for several frames (I also shot a roll through my A-1 at the same time) The A-1 roll came back perfect (save for any errors I made in metering) which had several frames with the 28mm.

The t90 roll looks good to the eye, but after scanning some of the frames I found the lines again in one of the images. This time it was with the 200mm f/2.8.

So now that I've ruled out the variables. I need to figure out what in the T90 is causing this, and why is it not on every frame.

agphotography · Mar 4, 2011

I sent an email to Steve Sweringen at Camera Clinic (The T90 specialist) and even he hasn't seen anything like this before!

hpulley · Mar 4, 2011

Did you try my empty camera bulb exposure experiment to examine the shutter?

agphotography · Mar 4, 2011

Yeah I checked with a flashlight and carefully watched the shutter during opening and closing. Nothing really stood out to me except that one of the blades in the middle looks like it has some wear on it. I'm just baffled.

Weird lines showing up on film when using FD 28mm?

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Weird lines showing up on film when using FD 28mm?

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