Way Beyond Monochrome: Customizing Speed?

Rich41

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I am a confused newbie and have a question for those of you who might have used the elaborate and precise method in WBM of predicting effective film speeds. On page 222, in step 3, it says, with your lightmeter on a Kodak Gray Card, "Place the reading on Zone I.5 and determine the exposure for an aperture closed down by 4 stops." I don't know how to complete this step.

My first problem is why doesn't it say to close down aperture by 3.5 stops. It seems to me that 4 stops would put the exposure on Zone I, not Zone I.5.

My second problem is why is this instruction broken into two smaller steps. Isn't "Place the reading on Zone I.5 and determine the exposure for an aperture closed down by 4 stops" just one step? Yet there is a big AND between them which to me implies two steps. It is a signal to me that I don't understand what the authors want me to do.

Can someone help me?
 

MattKing

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A Kodak grey card has a reflectance of about 18%. That is about half a stop more reflectance than what many would choose as a Zone V tone. So think of the grey card as representing a Zone V.5 tone.
 
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Rich41

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I am new to photography and APUG. This is my first post. So I am not sure of the protocol.

Thanks Matt for your reply. It was very helpful.
 

ic-racer

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To find your exposure index, you can use any uniform target; any shade of gray or white. It does not matter as long as it is not colored.
 

John Koehrer

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^^^That's true but he's a newbie to the terminology and likely to be easier for him to reference examples in the book.
In his shoes, I'm sure it would be for me.
 

Bill Burk

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Rich41, I think your question shows sound thinking and understanding.

Out of context (sorry I never bought the book so don't have the page to refer), it's hard to say what is going on with those instructions.

From what you told us, it sure sounds like the instructions have you misplace a half f/stop and do same adjustment twice.
 
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Mick Fagan

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Bill, it is in the chapter called, “Customizing Film Speed & Development”. There are various sections in that chapter with sub headings like, “Effective Film Speed Test”. “Film Developing Time Test”, and so on.

Then the chapter goes on about evaluating the data, predicting development times, then, you come to the section where the question raised, comes from. “Predicting Effective Film Speeds”

If anyone has Way Beyond Monochrome, the talked about section is on page 139. If you have the Way Beyond Monochrome Second Edition, the section talked about is on page 222; I have both books.

In neither of my books is the word, “and”, spelt in capital letters. I know my Way Beyond Monochrome Second Edition is the first print run as it was purchased before the book was printed. I presume the OP must have a second print run where somehow that word was changed to capital letters, I don’t know.

Regardless, one really needs to sit down and carefully go through the various steps, as outlined then hopefully one understands it and you are off. It is a bit of a technical read with accompanying charts and tables, you also need a densitometer to do the last step, which is where you arrive at your customised normal EI. As I do not own nor any longer have access to a densitometer, I have not studied or done this closely.

That chapter is a beautiful bit of (reasonably clear) instructions, with graphs to show exactly how to arrive at the destination. Under “Conclusion” in the chapter. It opens with, “A precise film speed development test is not a simple task.” I do agree with that statement.

By the way Bill, I think you would get a buzz out of that book, second edition that is. What Ansell Adams started with his trilogy of books, has been beautifully updated and finished with, Way Beyond Monochrome Second Edition by Ralph W Lambrecht and Chris Woodhouse. I don’t think this book will be bettered, if it is, it will not be in my lifetime.

In the original Way Beyond Monochrome book, each chapter had the authors name under the sub heading. In the later book, Way Beyond Monochrome Second Edition, there are no individual authors listed. In the original book, Ralph Lambrecht was the author of this chapter.

Now to possibly answer the OP’s question, maybe.

Having just read both books, line by line, in the referred too sections, Book 1 (B1) and Book 2 (B2) I have noticed differences in the writing. Generally, the writing seems to have been changed, to better illustrate in your mind, what the author is wishing you to do.

This is the section being discussed in B1.

“3. Place the reading on Zone 1.5 and determine the exposure for a medium aperture. Keep the exposure time within 1/8 and 1/250 of a second or modify the aperture.”

This is the section being discussed in B2.

“3. Place the reading on Zone 1.5 and determine the exposure for an aperture closed down by 4 stops. Keep the exposure time within 1/8 and 1/125 of a second or modify the aperture.”

I’m assuming there was an incremental change to better clarify, technically, what to do. Asking people learning photography what a medium aperture is, may be fraught with problems. That said, it seems that the changed text probably brings different questions.

Also, B2 has better illustrations, including in this chapter and exactly on this instruction 3. It has a picture (12C) that shows exactly where to place your light meter on a grey card. Alongside that picture of the grey card, is a chart showing the exposure and appropriate aperture relationship along with the EI relationship followed by the density relationship.

B1 does not have this chart and illustration, one of the many differences between B1 and B2 and why I have suggested to friends that B2 is the superior book. That said, there is nothing wrong with B1, B2 just has less nothing wrong.

What Ralph is saying to do, is to place your light meter over the illustrated section of the gray card. (centre of the grey card) take a reading, then place that reading on Zone 1.5. You then determine what aperture you have come up with. The take that aperture and close down 4 stops. This is your starting point.

I believe this is what Ralph is trying to get you to do. Read step 1, then step 2, then do step 3. Refer to the chart alongside the grey card illustration for step 4 and 5.

With a bit of reading and rereading you should be able to get it. I haven't done this, but after reading this a bit, thinking, then reading it again, I believe I understand it.

By the way, Rich41, welcome to the forum and do not be afraid to ask any question, we will (mostly) try and help you.

Mick.
 

David Allen

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I have never had a copy of the book but, as a grey card is supposed to be 18% and your meter is calibrated for 12%, it may be a step required to correct for this.

If you can’t get a clear answer to your question and are still unsure about determining your EI and processing time, I have previously posted the testing regime I use with my students. This uses a combination of very sophisticated testing devices: your eyes, your equipment and your way of doing things. You can find the methodology in post #3 in this thread:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de
 

RalphLambrecht

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se the author of that book and the text in question,I feel responsible to help you.please send all requests to rlambrec@icloud.com and give me a day or two.
 

Bill Burk

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Thanks Mick! I always wanted that book, your recommendation is well taken.

Ralph Lambrecht often posts here and he may help clarify. He often joins in Q&A, so his word would be the best (edit - I see he responded to this thread)...

But I think you were about to see the difference between books but got derailed mid-though. The difference answers @Rich41 's question clearly!

An aperture closed down by four stops = one of the medium apertures of the lens.

If you have an f/2 lens, then you click four times to 2.8, 4, 5.6, 8 and use f/8 as your starting point, so long as that puts the shutter speed approximately 1/8 to 1/250 of a second.

This solves a couple problems with testing: the more accurate mechanical shutter speeds are in that range of times, and the more accurate f/stops are in the middle - the very smallest apertures and the wide open apertures are most likely to not be what they say they are.
 
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silveror0

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se the author of that book and the text in question,I feel responsible to help you.please send all requests to rlambrec@icloud.com and give me a day or two.

I noticed in post #10 you've provided your email address, but it differs from the one in your profile. Does your profile need to be updated? I like to keep communication channels open so I can bug you with questions occasionally.
 

MattKing

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Thanks Mick for your post. To the OP: ignore my post. I have book 1, and I misunderstood the reference to 4 stops you referred to.
 
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Rich41

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RalphLambrecht thanks for your response. The email you gave me doesn't seem to work, perhaps, as another member has noted, there is an error.
 

Peter Schrager

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Try the zone vi manual by Fred picker. Simple easy to use instructions. ..just need use of a density meter after the test...
BY the way this not in anyway meant to demeanor Ralph!!
 

Bill Burk

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As I see it, the instructions are one step...

"Place the reading on Zone I.5"

The instructions go further to explain that you should try to make the selected f/stop be the f/stop that is 4 clicks down from wide open. So maybe change the shutter speed or light until that's the f/stop you need to "Place the reading on Zone I.5".
 

Bill Burk

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Let us know if it makes sense yet, because it really is simple as you first thought.

Your first action is to take the reading with light meter and calculate the f/stop and shutter speed combination that shifts your reading "3.5 stops" down towards less exposure.

And the second part is not an action but just to confirm that you have selected a set of light intensity, f/stop and shutter speed that are good for testing.
 

M Carter

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This is one of my favorites for this subject, because the author has some techniques to determine film-speed, development, and enlarging without needing a densitometer.

The sections about finding base+fog and determining development times (as they relate to a given printing paper) really made sense to me on the first reading, and it was a fun set of tests to do (though i scaled back a bit). No curves or charts needed. Worth a read anyway. This is print-based and you need an hour or so in the darkroom to do some of the dialing in. I found it very helpful, and it made some good sense to me. (Link is part one of two parts, part two is here).
 

TheToadMen

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Rich41

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That you all for your helpful posts to me. I am new to photography. I spent the first three years in the digital world. Now, I am falling in love with film. Responses like the ones I received here is one of the reasons I love film. I find more passion and camaraderie among film photographers. So many people have given me so much help. Maybe we feel like a beleaguered lot, a bunch of Luddites. I also love the fact that all the old books on the technical aspects of film, while out-of-print, I have been able to pick up used on Amazon. While I am waiting on the step wedges before I try WBM's "precise and elaborate" method of calibrating, I have been using a gray card and a densitometer and getting reasonable results. Again thank all of you so much.
 

TheToadMen

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Some other fine "old" books to read & learn about analogue photography are the Ansel Adams trilogy: The Camera, The Negative, The Print.

 
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