Water usage in the darkroom

jford · Aug 2, 2006

I'm in the process of building a darkroom in an area of Australia that is currently on stage 4 water restrictions, which means odd and even garden watering (with a hose for one hour every second day), no hosing driveways or washing cars, no fountains, no filling ponds or pools, no sprinklers, no watering grass etc etc. I'm intending to offset my water usage in the darkroom with a rainwater tank for watering the garden, so almost no town water goes on the garden, which means I can feel less guilty using it in the darkroom. The reservoirs in the area are at 20% capacity.

My question is, how much water do you use in developing and printing, in particular washing fibre based prints? Do you leave the tap running the whole time the print is washing? How am I going to reduce the amount of water I'm using in the darkroom to an absolute minimum? (No, I'm still going to shower...)

Thanks,

John.

reellis67 · Aug 2, 2006

We have strict water restrictions here as well, so I use the soak and dump method rather than letting the water run. I do a five minute soak six times for each print by filling trays and moving the prints down the line dumping the water between prints. It saves a large volume of water compared to constantly running water using other methods.

- Randy

juan · Aug 2, 2006

I do the soak and dump method, too. See the Ilford site for recommendations.

Also, do some more research. I know I've read somewhere of photographers watering plants with their spent water.
juan

Nick Zentena · Aug 2, 2006

Doesn't warm water wash out quicker then cooler water? Should be fairly easy to setup a solar tank to heat water for the darkroom. Plastic tank painted black?? Blend it with tap water to get water that isn't too hot.

George Papantoniou · Aug 2, 2006

I have installed a double sewage system in my darkroom. I collect the "dirty" water (dumping chemicals and smelly stuff) in a tank that is directed to the sewage pipes and the "clean" water (from washing prints and other stuff) that is (in the near future, when the installation is finished) to be directed in a big (2000 lt) tank in the backyard that will be used (with the help of a pump) for cleaning the driveways and cars and (maybe) watering the garden. It's a complicated system (I need to lay plastic piping all around the house) but I feel I have to do it, for the environment's sake... (although we don't have a water shortage - for the time being)...

Neal · Aug 2, 2006

Dear John,

I built a nice low flow 11x14 print washer (I got lucky, the 1/4" lexan was pulled from a dumpster). Unless you can get the material in a similar fashion, purchasing one on ebay is probably only slightly more expensive. In any case I'm sure it uses much less water in an evening of printing than my morning shower. For film I like the 5 times and dump method. A little over 1L/35mm roll for my tanks. HCA for all film and paper.

Neal Wydra

grahamp · Aug 2, 2006

My darkroom is not plumbed, do I am limited by how much water I take in. I use between 2 and 3 US gallons of water for film developing or printing, including diluting the chemicals, holding trays, and rinsing the equipment. Printing tends to use more, and film developing is dependedent on the amount of chemical reuse and the tanks I am using.

Print washing is a time and dilution equation. With large wash tanks you may find that running water over 30 minutes is about the same as 6 changes in 30 minutes - it is all down to the volume and flow rate and varies with the model. Rinsing each print in a small amount of clean water before going into the main wash helps keep the fixer concentration down at the start. Ideally you should use a washing tank that is just big enough for the number of prints you have to wash. You can always use the wash water for flushing toilets.

Stan160 · Aug 2, 2006

I have 3 buckets, deep enough to stand an 8x10 print on end. They get filled with water for a printing session, and each time I make a print it goes in the first bucket. Then I move the print that was in the first bucket to the second, in a chain, so eventually all the prints end up in the last bucket. At the end of the session I fill a fourth bucket with water and transfer all of the prints.

Once the prints are out and drying, the next four times I need to flush the loo I use one of the buckets of water.

Kevin Caulfield · Aug 2, 2006

It is ironic that you are concerned about wasting water with all the rain in Melbourne right at this minute.

If you use a print washer such as the Nova ones, with a very slow flow you can wash probably twenty 8 by 10 inch fibre prints in about 40 minutes. That is probably equivalent to a 5 or 6 minute shower as the flow is so slow. Those print washers are very efficient.

Mick Fagan · Aug 2, 2006

For sheet and roll film developing, rotary processing uses the least amount of water. I also have found it to give the best and most consistant results.

For paper, have you considered using RC paper for proof/contact sheets, then fibre for your finished work?

You sound like you are on the outer fringes of Melbourne with those restrictions. Although I believe come September the first, the greater Melbourne area and/or state wide, will be on those restrictions.

When I rotary process either 4 rolls of 35mm or 4 rolls of 120 or 4 sheets of 4x5, washing uses 3 litres of water.

That is a total of 6 changes of fresh water and lots of turning around.

Basically it's a rotary version of Ilford's save water washing technique from their website.

I use RC paper now, I found the water usage went down dramatically, along with our water bill.

Mick.

jford · Aug 3, 2006

Thanks for all the advice! The darkroom (currently stud walls waiting for plasterboard) is in Maldon which is further down the path of water restrictions than Melbourne. Bendigo (nearby) may run out completely in a year or so if it doesn't rain properly. I'm in Melb at the moment and it is bucketing down intermittently.

I will work on the five or six times and then dump method. I was planning to proof using RC and then upgrade to FB later (once I've made all the learning mistakes on RC). I'm mainly shooting 8x10 and developing in trays to begin with.

I couldn't find the save water washing technique on Ilford's site after much hunting. Anyone got a link?

Thanks,

John.

Bob F. · Aug 3, 2006

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=104 - it's the "Processing B&W FB Paper" pdf - actually, I think it is in all their fibre paper fact sheets.

Worth pointing out that the Ilford sequence requires film strength fresh rapid fixer. My own tests suggested that 1 min in the fix is pushing your luck and I used 90 seconds. More usually, I fix for 2 mins, rinse, hypo clear for >10 mins, rinse, 4 x 15mins soak and dump in a vertical washer.

Cheers, Bob.

Mick Fagan · Aug 3, 2006

For spiral tank use, when a non-hardening fixer has been used, the following method of washing is recommended. This method of washing is faster, uses less water yet still gives negatives of archival permanence.

1 Process the film in a spiral tank.

2 Fix it using Ilford Hypam fixer.

3 After fixation, fill the tank with water at the same temperature as the processing solutions, and invert it five times.

4 Drain the water away and refill. Invert the tank ten times.

5 Drain and refill it for the third time and invert the tank twenty times. Drain the water away.

Found this under:- Applications Developing B&W films

Machine & Deep Tank Processing

Unreplenished Systems:- Open the very last PDF (factsheet 4)

I just use versions of this method, for most things I do in the darkroom.

Mick.

Ps:- the information is there, but it should be in a better way to find something as important as this. The whole world is starting to run out of potable water.

PPs:- I'll be in Maldon for the hillclimb in October (I think) I'll be at the BBQ in the house which is at the start line at the bottom of Mt Tarrengower. Maybe I can visit?

bsdunek · Aug 3, 2006

Using Hypo Eliminator also reduces washing time. We have our own well and septic system, so I don't worry about how much water I use, however, the time savings is nice, so I use HE and reduced wash times.

Bruce

dancqu · Aug 3, 2006

jford said:
My question is, how much water do you use in
developing and printing, in particular washing
fibre based prints? John.

I've a similar water shortage problem. Mine though is
due to it being very hard. I've settled on a two tray
and transfer method using distilled. I call it the Still
Water Diffusion method.

Hydrophobic separator sheets are used, one at
bottom and top and one twixt each print. Extremely
permeable, they allow for an unimpeded diffusion
of chemistry from the print, front and back.

One quarter liter per 8x10 first soak and each
following. First and each following start with one
quarter liter on bottom. With first soak plus three
transfers 1 and 1/4 to 1 and 1/2 liter are needed
for each 8x10. One print with bottom and top
water will take 2 liters. The method may use
less water than any other method. Dan

jford · Aug 3, 2006

Bob- thanks for the link.

Mick- The Mt Tarrengower hillclimb is on October 21-22. We're about halfway between the centre of town and the bottom of the hill. Looks like a fun event, although I know nothing about motor racing. You're welcome to drop by. The darkroom should have walls and power by then, if I get some spare time!

Thanks for the tips.

John.

Mick Fagan · Aug 3, 2006

John, I'll be there for picture taking. I don't claim to know too much about motor racing, or interesting looking people.

I do though, seem to be able to take good pictures of both.

I have now noted the days down, I'll be there on the Sunday and will possibly see if I can meet up with you then.

Mick.

George Collier · Aug 4, 2006

An alkaline fixer like Formulary's TF4 requires less wash. Formulary specs say 15 - 20 min wash for fiber paper. I set my vertical archival washer (prints separated by plexi) for a flow of 1 liter per minute. 20 minutes is 20 liters, or maybe about 5 gallons. Not too bad. Very slow rate for a long time is always better than high flow and short time (for the same amount of water) for chemicals to migrate out of the paper base.

Water usage in the darkroom

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