Water Temp for washing prints

[bmac]

It occured to me this evening while I was finishing up my printing that the wheather had changed and that chances are the tap water temp has gone way down. Mine has gone down about 4 degrees in the past few weeks, I am expecting about 6 more by December.

My printing chemicals are all the same temp (room temp) but my final was is about 58 degrees cooler. What, if any effect will this have on my prints? I am using Ilford MG Fiber paper.

Thanks!
Brian

 

[jmcd]

Lower wash temperatures will slow your wash time down. I believe that 75 degrees is considered an ideal wash temperature, in terms of overall efficiency with a running water wash (according to Kodak?).

 

[EUGENE]

Brian, we're undergoing the same cooling cycle here in the Dallas, TX area. The water temp. has dropped considerably. Coincidentally, I received my new Nova 16X20 print washer yesterday, and the instructions indicate an increase of wash time of 15 minutes for every 2 degrees of water temp. decrease. In other words, Ilford Multigrade FB paper- 30 minutes at 68F. Increase wash time to 45 min. at 66F and 60 min. at 64F. I don't wash my prints at temperatures below 65F. Ambient water temps. in my area are usually around 75F. I wash my FB prints for a minimum of 30 minutes at that temperature. Do not exceed 86F with Ilford FB paper, unless you use a hardener in your fixer. However, a hardener in the fixer is not recommended by Ilford, unless it is absolutely necessary.

 

[tripspud]

Hi Brian!

Perhaps some tests might be necessary. But if a washing aid is used, lower
temperatures should not require longer washing times. Perhaps the information
does not assume the use of a washing aid. This topic came up recently on the
puresilver e-mail list. I don't recall the thread exactly, however.

Rich Lahrson
Berkeley, California
tripspud@transbay.net

 

[bmac]

Was just thinking earlier this evening that I needed to bust out the perma wash!

 

[EUGENE]

Brian, I treat all of my prints, as well as film, in Heico Permawash before the final wash cycle. Everything I said about the washing temperature included a wash- aid treatment. Fiber base paper absorbs fixer like a sponge. Film and RC paper are much less absorbent. I am referring to FB paper, here. As far as wash temperature is concerned, the warmer the wash temperature, the faster, and more efficiently, the materials will wash, up to the point where the emulsion is in danger of softening. Colder than 64-65F, the washing time would be extended too far. The wet time on the paper would be so long that there would be a risk of separation of the emulsion layer from the paper. David Vestal is a noted expert on washing photo materials. His books and articles can be found in the photo section of most libraries. There was an extensive research project on the subject a few years ago, and the results were published in Photo Techniques Magazine. The latest info. on handling Ilford's FB paper can be downloaded from the Ilford.com website.

 

[dancqu]

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (EUGENE @ Oct 17 2002, 11:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>"... and the instructions indicate an increase of wash time of 15 minutes for every 2 degrees &nbsp;of water temp. decrease." &nbsp;















</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
And for every 2 degree increase in water temperature above 68 F?
What do they advise? We would both agree that a warmer wash can
be a shorter wash.
The 30 minute wash to which you refer; is that Ilford's post selenium
recommendation?
Ilford's post 60 second film strength fix sequence requires only a ten
minute wash. Ten minutes.
Kodak advises a 20 minute wash. For long term stability wash water
should be between 65 and 70 F.
Are these suppliers pandering to a need for speed or do they really
mean clean in 10 or 20 minutes? Dan

 

[EUGENE]

Dancqu, the instructions that I quoted came with the Nova Washmaster Printwasher. They were specific for that particular piece of equipment. Ilford's recommendations, which I follow, are for their optimum permanence sequence with selenium toner. This fact sheet can be downloaded from the Ilford.com website under the title "processing B&W fibre base papers". Ilford recommends an ideal wash temp. range from 65-75 degrees F. with a minimum wash time of 30 minutes. They do not mention increasing the wash time for temps. colder than 65F, or decreasing the wash time for temps warmer than 75F. If my explaination gave you that impression, it's because of my inability to communicate with this keyboard. My wash water runs at an ambient temp. of 80F during the warmer months of the year. I still wash for a minimum of 30 minutes in my archival printwashers. I can warm my wash water to 65F, but I can't cool it below the ambient temp. Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner contains Amminium Thiosulphate (rapid fixer) and needs to receive a full wash after the prints are toned. I am only talking about FB prints. I do not use RC paper. Film does not absorb fixer into the base material. Even so, I treat it with Permawash and wash it for at least 15 min. at 65-75 F, just to play it safe. I don't believe that Ilford, Kodak, or any other manufacturers are trying to deceive their customers. They want us to suceed and continue to purchase their products.

 

[dancqu]

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (EUGENE @ Oct 19 2002, 10:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Ilford's recommendations, which I follow, are for their optimum permanence sequence with selenium toner. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Eugene, that does allow for their 40 8x10, give or take, print equivilant per
liter? Do you perform any iodide or residual silver tests? If any I would be interested in your exact proceedures. Dan