Water Evaporation Spots on Film

mtlc · Dec 2, 2023

Hello,

I've noticed some mineral deposits on my film from the occasional water drop that evaporates. Does anyone have any tips to prevent this? I'm using city tap water for the rinse. I use a drop of photo flow in the last rinse and a film squeegee but can't seem to get all of the water off of the film.

Thanks!

koraks · Dec 2, 2023

You'll get many responses by people who all do this differently. Some will suggest to use a squeegee on your film, others will warn against it. Some will suggest using distilled water for the final wash, some will recommend a washing agent, some will....etc. etc. Consider all these suggestions as possibilities that you could use. In the end, it's about finding out what works for you. There is no single, best way to do this.

Having said that, my personal approach is to whip as much water from the film as possible while it's still on the reel by shaking it. Then hang the film up and gently wipe off the shiny side with clean paper tissue that I've folded over a couple of times. I don't touch the emulsion side as it's prone to scratching; the shiny side much less so. The paper tissue gets rid of all the droplets and the film dries without water spots.

With 120 roll film and sheet film I don't use a paper towel and just hang them up to dry like that. Since there's a gelatin anti-curl layer on the backside of those formats, the risk of water spots is much smaller and it's much easier to get muck on the film that won't remove.

35mm on the other hand has a perfectly smooth backside and any lint or fibers from a cloth or paper towel can easily be wiped off once the film is dry. Lint & fiber that gets stuck in the gelatin emulsion is generally more difficult to remove and it usually requires re-washing the film and mechanical removal (wiping, rubbing), which creates the risk of scratches. That's why it's a good idea to not touch the gelatin side. Of course, some will recommend the use of a squeegee, which counters this advice, and they'll also explain the caveats to the use of one. I myself have no good experiences with the use of a squeegee on film.

JerseyDoug · Dec 2, 2023

I gently wipe down both sides of 35mm negatives with Kimwipes. No water spots. No scratches. No lint.

Ian Grant · Dec 2, 2023

When I shot 35mm regularly I used paper toweling, as above only on the non emulsion side.

It is also worth using de-ionised water for the final rinses, the water were I live is so hard I use a filter jug fr the kettle anyway, so it's easy.

Ian

destroya · Dec 2, 2023

use distilled water with a drop or 2 of photoflo or its equivalent.

Sirius Glass · Dec 2, 2023

I use PhotoFlo for 30 seconds to a minute, carefully following the instructions. Have the water run off the film as you hang the film. Hang the film and put a paper towel on the lower corners to draw off the water. Do not wipe or use squeegee.

jimjm · Dec 2, 2023

I mix 1 liter of distilled water with about 2-3 ml of Photoflo. The entire wash is in tap water, but the final dunk is in the Photoflo for about 30 sec. Film is hung to dry without any wipe or squeegee.

Doremus Scudder · Dec 2, 2023

If there are droplets on your film after the Photo Flo, you haven't mixed the it correctly. Photo Flo is a wetting agent designed to reduce the surface tension and, thereby, prevent droplets from forming. The presence of droplets on your film means the wetting agent isn't doing its job and was likely mixed too weak.

So, first follow the directions and mix as the manufacturer states (1+200 for Photo Flo 200 IIRC). Dunk some film in it and see if droplets still form. If so add the smallest amounts of concentrate you can till you get the desired sheeting action. That will be the dilution you need to use from then on. Unless your water is very hard, I'll bet the suggested dilution will work perfectly for you.

If your water is hard, mix your wetting agent with distilled water and let the film sit in this final rinse for a few minutes. This will not only prevent droplets, but allow minerals from your hard water that are still in the film's emulsion to leach out. This will prevent them from making marks/streaks/deposits on your film when drying.

I squeegee between index and middle finger after dunking my fingers in the wetting agent, but my hands are nice and soft If you mix your wetting agent so it works correctly, you won't have water drops on your film; you can decide to squeegee or not. If you don't, the film will take a bit longer to dry.

Don't save mixed wetting agent like Photo Flow for very long; it grows bacterial slime after a few days.

Best,

Doremus

mshchem · Dec 2, 2023

Yep, as others have said. Proper use of Photo Flo, gentle tissue on the non- emulsion side.

mshchem · Dec 2, 2023

Photo Flo 200 literally means dilute 1 to 200. 5 mL/L

jimjm · Dec 2, 2023

mshchem said:
Photo Flo 200 literally means dilute 1 to 200. 5 mL/L

Yep, you're right. I usually mix enough to handle 2 rolls of 35mm at a time, or about 600ml. (Darn post-covid brain fog).

koraks · Dec 2, 2023

@Eugen Mezei sulfite washes from the emulsion really easily. If the spots you had correlated with the concentration of sulfite in one of the processing baths, the final wash was insufficient.

cliveh · Dec 2, 2023

I have said this many times on this subject and I can speak about processing film in several locations round the UK (I can't speak for other countries). After final wash in tap water, fill the tank with deionized water to cover the film. Agitate for about 10 seconds and hang to dry. No drying marks ever.

GLS · Dec 2, 2023

After bulk washing with tap water, I do a penultimate wash in deionised water for 2 min. I then do a final brief wash in deionised water containing ~ 10% high purity IPA, which acts as a wetting agent and also speeds up the drying process. My negs are always pristine using this process.

Ian David · Dec 2, 2023

I second the recommendation to add a bit of IPA with the PhotoFlo for the final brief water rinse. I use no squeegees or wipes of any kind. After I hang my film up, there are no droplets or rivulets of water visible on either side of the surface of the film.

Maris · Dec 2, 2023

It's an old one but it works.
Hang the film as wet as possible with PhotoFlo solution but hang it edge on at a 45 degree angle. Now the last rinse only has to run a very short distance across the film rather than down its entire length. And if a water drop happens it's on the lower edge of the film not the picture area.

Augustus Caesar · Dec 2, 2023

mtlc said:
Hello,

I've noticed some mineral deposits on my film from the occasional water drop that evaporates. Does anyone have any tips to prevent this? I'm using city tap water for the rinse. I use a drop of photo flow in the last rinse and a film squeegee but can't seem to get all of the water off of the film.

Thanks!

Never touch the film before it's dry. No squeegee! What I do, after adding photo-flo to the final wash, is to hang the negatives, then use the photo-flo water from the tank and pour it over the hanging negatives from the top, allowing the water to cascade over the hanging film. Be sure to weight the bottom of the film strip.

You may want to put a bucket or small tub under the film to catch this water.

MattKing · Dec 2, 2023

I may as well post the link to what works for me:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/resources/making-and-using-a-kodak-photo-flo-stock-solution.396/

koraks · Dec 3, 2023

Eugen Mezei said:
Sulfite yes, but calcium sulfite not.

OK, in that case I see how an acidic fixer will help. Since my workflow always includes an acidic stop bath, I've never had this problem. I guess it's a potential concern if you use a water stop and a neutral fixer.

Philippe-Georges · Dec 3, 2023

A few drops of AGEPON in demineralised water and then, GENTLY (!) sliding the wet film between the index- and middle finger (so you can feel the eventual grit) to wipe off the excess of water.

I have been doing this for ages now...

mwdake · Dec 3, 2023

When I hang my film to dry I hang it at a 45 degree angle.
That way any remaining water does not run down the length of the film but to the edge.
I do remove as much water as I can before hanging by shaking the reel.

GLS · Dec 3, 2023

mwdake said:
When I hang my film to dry I hang it at a 45 degree angle.

This only works for sheet film though.

MattKing · Dec 3, 2023

Nope - 45 degrees works great with roll film - top attached to a clip near the top right of the shower stall, and bottom attached to a clip nearer to the left side of the shower stall

Augustus Caesar · Dec 3, 2023

mwdake said:
When I hang my film to dry I hang it at a 45 degree angle.
That way any remaining water does not run down the length of the film but to the edge.
I do remove as much water as I can before hanging by shaking the reel.

Yes, I hang the film at a small angle to prevent the water from travelling the whole length of the film, after I pour a tank-full of water with photo-flo in it.

GLS · Dec 3, 2023

MattKing said:
Nope - 45 degrees works great with roll film - top attached to a clip near the top right of the shower stall, and bottom attached to a clip nearer to the left side of the shower stall

Wouldn't this put weird stresses on the film though and encourage it to curl etc whilst drying?

Water Evaporation Spots on Film

mtlc

koraks

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JerseyDoug

Ian Grant

destroya

Sirius Glass

jimjm

Doremus Scudder

mshchem

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jimjm

koraks

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cliveh

GLS

Ian David

Maris

Augustus Caesar

MattKing

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koraks

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Philippe-Georges

mwdake

GLS

MattKing

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Augustus Caesar

GLS

Water Evaporation Spots on Film

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