Washing my reels and tanks in prep for fickle developers

Hello all,

After having mixed results I've decided to give DiXactol and Exactol another try. My problems in the past were not the results in terms of sharpness or tonality, those were fantastic, but streaks and uneven development. My guess is the reels and tanks not perfectly clean from prior use of other developers and such and I've read often elsewhere (and in Thornton's own literature) that these developers are very prone to streaking on negs due to contamination. Short of buying a brand new set of reels and tanks (35mm and 120, and I like Hewe$), any suggestions on a good, thorough way to wash and clean the reels and tanks I have in preparation for the new bottles of these developers I have coming in order to prevent this contamination streaking? Perhaps a run through the autmatic dishwasher (maybe two runs?), or a long flush and/or soak in running tap water with maybe a final distilled rinse? Or maybe just a "phantom" run with no film, as I think I remember Thornton mentioning that after a roll or two the streaking will go away as the use of these developers "cleans" the reels and tanks---this seems a waste though...

Thoughts welcomed. Thanks.

I have Jobo plastic tanks and reels which appear to be dishwasher safe.

Regards.

Bob

I've always found that really hot water and a little soap will do the trick. An old toothbrush will help if you have problem areas, but I usually just wash in hot soapy water just like how I do the dishes and then rinse well with more hot water and dry.

- Randy

I had no problems using my used plastic film reels.I always used distilled water to mix the developer.

Good Evening, Rich,

After a good thorough film wash, the reels should be quite clean. If you use Photo-Flo afterward, however, that needs to be washed off. I've found that simple soap and warmish water for both reels and tanks (SS), followed by a warm-hot rinse does the trick. Actually, I suspect that just a good rinse in warm-hot running water would probably suffice, but I'd rather be safe than sorry, so I use the soap also. I have never, in over thirty-five years of film processing, found any kind of brush necessary with SS, but plastic reels are well-designed to trap any residual chemicals and may need extra attention.

Konical

One developer regarded as `tricky´ is the developer from Detlef Ludwig from Gigabitfilm. (Don’t mix him up with Heribert Schain from Spur and his developers. Though they both sat once in the same nest (think tank).)
Ludwig gives some hints on development failures:

-) He calls his developer susceptible to precipitations of metallic silver out of fine grain development. He advises using a bleach bath to clean drum and reels or run chromogenic processes intermittently.
-) Pyrogallol leaves stains which cannot be removed and are still active on the developing process.
-) Further he warns for slight residues of wetting agents on drum and reels. Even contaminated by hand. So he is not having it about the foaming issue. (Though I think opening the reels and letting the film fall into a container with wetting agent is common practice anyway.)
-) Further he warns for residues of plasticizers and letting them diffuse to the surface of plastic materials by heat drying them (cabinet or hair-dryer). I know the Jobo drums of the seventies as well as the contemporary series. And at least concerning the latter I cannot think of any material employed containing plasticizers. Anyway, they could contain other additives which might migrate. Though, by heat drying you could as well evaporate critical additives thus removing them from the drum, as well as let further stuff migrate to the surface. This could be a kind of open question. Resorting to metal drums and reels would be an outcome.
-) Very narrow plastic reels he claims could produce an effect which shows as flux-effect but actually is caused by smearing emulsion substance and building up a concentration gradient, which itself provokes a gradient in the initial development.

And besides contamination:
-) Any mixed up developer concentrate consisting of more than one developing agent should be at chemical equilibrium; what takes at least 24h. Furthermore he claims for his own developer a specific time for the working solution to be used of between 2 and 10 minutes. Using such a solution before time could result in exhaustion before the whole film area has been reached.
-) That agitating should begin short after the developer solution has been poured into the drum should be well known. (I guess the more potent the developer and the thinner the emulsion layer the more critical this time becomes.) Ludwig claims for his developer a maximum time lag of 12 seconds after the developer has reached first part of the film. Extremely short lag times could limit the amount of reels to be stapled in the drum.


I guess these issues are not of direct help, but perhaps they point at directions to look at in case of trouble. (Anyway, one is handling `holy water´ and thus things will never be under total control…)

AgX said:

One developer regarded as `tricky´ ....

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Excellent info AgX, and thanks for taking the time to post your info and suggestions. Very appreciated.

As indicated Detlef Ludwig is worried about chemical influences of the developing tank on processing results. (Though I cannot see a source of those plasticicers which he calls one cause of problems.)
In a German forum he stated that with modern emulsions those sources of processing faults will grow in importance.

He started a collection of typical used tanks to yield statistically valid results while investigating on their influence on processing.

Konical said:

Good Evening, Rich,

After a good thorough film wash, the reels should be quite clean. If you use Photo-Flo afterward, however, that needs to be washed off. I've found that simple soap and warmish water for both reels and tanks (SS), followed by a warm-hot rinse does the trick. Actually, I suspect that just a good rinse in warm-hot running water would probably suffice, but I'd rather be safe than sorry, so I use the soap also. I have never, in over thirty-five years of film processing, found any kind of brush necessary with SS, but plastic reels are well-designed to trap any residual chemicals and may need extra attention.

Konical

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About a year ago, I bought several 35mm and 120 Hewes SS reels from a commercial processing lab that was going out of business. The reels had a dark substance adhered to the spirals. So, before using them to develop film, I washed them in warm water to which I added a couple drops of dishwashing detergent. In order to get the reels visibly clean, I found that I needed to scrub them with a soft bristle tooth brush. They work fine now - no spots or other development defects on the film.

I soak the reels overnight in a dilute bleach solution, and they come out looking like new.

Simply put, if you rinse your gear off immediately after use, then set them aside to air dry there should not be enough residue of anything left behind to affect your results next time. All photographic chemistry is water soluble. Soaps and detergents are designed to remove grease and oil, and don't help much with photo chemistry.

fschifano said:

Soaps and detergents are designed to remove grease and oil, and don't help much with photo chemistry.

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Actually in some cases they will.

Until recently I had always left the film on the reel(plastic) while in wetting agent. I had then used hot water and an old toothbrush to scrub the reels. Most of the time this had worked OK but recently I had trouble with 120 and the 35mm while loading the reel( Jobo).

The problem may have had nothing to do with residual wetting agent but I have since decided to both unwind the film from the reel before placing in wetting agent and scrubbing the reel with soap and water - just to be sure.

When you've struggled with loading in a darkroom for over an hour before succeeding then it's better to be safe than sorry.

pentaxuser

This wetting-agent problem seems to be something specific. I only read about it with reference to pictorial processing of microfilms using certain developers.

after a roll or two the streaking will go away as the use of these developers "cleans" the reels and tanks---this seems a waste though...

Thoughts welcomed. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
******
Use a fiber vegetable brush with Barkeeper's Friend, or Bon Ami. Use the Bon Ami bar if you can find one; otherwise, the all-natural cleanser. Rinse really well.

cleanup

I exclusively use ONLY Dr. Bronners soap in my darkroom. I dilute it about 50% and go from there. leaves no soapy residue...hell ;you can even brush your teeth with this stuff!!! the only marks I ever get on film are from ME!!
Best, Peter

it's all about the maintenance - taking a good university level chemistry lab will really kick you in the rear that way... I did a few of those and some microbiology - so that really helps - the whole trick with whatever labware you're using (here including stainless steel) is to rinse it out IMMEDIATELY after having had chems in it. Do NOT let it sit for any length of time with, oh, let's say, fixer in it (i.e. - leaving it to evaporate and dry up) - a bit of wash aid left overnight and some good rinses with soap and water should remedy any such problem.

The theory behind silver contamination:

The idea is that metallic silver residues in tanks/on reels are a source for some silver ions when the tank is filled with developer. In the moment of first contact of the AgX crystals with the developing agent they can be fogged by silver ions. With heterogenic emulsions this would lead to a rather spread, merely visible fogging. With emulsions containing crystals of identical size, as in microfilms, when processed for pictorial use this fogging may form visible streaks which actually are an image of the flux of the developer through the reels.

Hello, my name is Detlef Ludwig. I am glad to see your interest. The new generation of films and the new generation in photography needs a perfect processing. This was and is and will be my goal taking the initiative for a better photography in 2000 as an allways independent company, see www.gigabitfilm.com.

Starting 2000 in public, I knew, that I got perfect results, but what was with the user? I knew, that a lot of work was waiting for me, because industry had never done this job in the last 40 years. Now I can reap the benefits for my work, the new enhanced Gigabitfilm TGP, an enhanced successor for the not more in trade Kodak Technical Pan. The first official aerial test with ISO 32 ended 7th july 2007 with success.

Starting 2000 in public, I was HAPPY about every reclamation, because I knew, when one (1) person made a reclamation to me, hundred (100) will be silent. People working in quality-managemet know, where I speak about. Only in long telephon calls it was possible to solve these problems and to characterize all possible mistakes in groups. In written form, as here in internet, I would have gotten never clear results. Because the clients did not know, what they had made wrong. Only in a speech it was possible, with a lot of patience to solve these problems. In German I can do it, because I am one of the few, who is trained in linguistic, speech and HUMOUR. People trust me and together, the client and I the producer, we found the mystery.

My textes in german are more in a scientific language, together with a juridical meaning. Thanks Mr AgX I see, that parts of my textes had found their way to overseas. Mr. AgX, thanks for your translation and write me an email, you know my family name, then you know my mailadress.