Washing film and paper in Jobo

arigram · Feb 19, 2006

I've got a nice new CPP-2 which I used it for the first time tonight.
I was pretty happy with the results, I just have one question:
What's the best method for washing film and paper in 2500 and 2800 drums with the Lift?

I did a test development of two 135 films in the small 2500 series drum. For washing I used a version of the Ilford method and left the drum rotating while doing one minute washes ten times while changing the water.

What's your method?

Dug · Feb 19, 2006

With the CPP-2 and lift I set the timer for 15 minutes, and do about 5-6 changes of water during that time. I drain and refill after the first minute and extend it for the following rinses. This way I can work on other stuff while the film is washing. That is what I love about the Jobo - you can let it wash and do other things so it is less tedious.

Maybe it is not long enough or compulsive enough for your standards, but it works for me.

arigram · Feb 19, 2006

That's the problem Dug: I have no standards, so I am looking for one!
I did that ten minute-change trial because I though it would be long and thorough enough for a first try. I thought that better to overdo it than not wash it enough.

That's why I am asking.
The water change method of Ilford is for hand inversion with changing times and agitations so I thought that the constant way of Jobo would require a different method.

I have no chemicals to test for fixer residue so I can only go by people's advice.

Rolfe Tessem · Feb 19, 2006

FWIW, the Jobo automatic processors use a five minute wash with a water change every minute. It has always worked for me -- not that I have any choice since this is hard-coded into the ATL-1000 I use.

Edwardv · Feb 19, 2006

After the fix, I do two 1.5 minute wash, one 1.5 minutes with perma wash - one shot working solution or use Hypo Clearing Agent, six 1.5 minute wash, and two 1.5 minute wash with distilled water. Pending on the film I will expose it to sunlight for 15-45 minutes to remove the magenta or pinkish tint after drying.

If you decide to process 220 roll film. You need to let the film totally unwind, no tightness, so you can insert the film on the reel. It can be a pain at times.

By the way thank you for the information on Galaxy 92. I haven't contacted them yet but plan to. What do you think of their music and format?

Edwardv · Feb 19, 2006

Forget to add "easier" after film.

arigram · Feb 20, 2006

Thank you guys. I guess five water changes after hypo clear would be more than enough.
Edward, to tell you the truth I haven't listened to them much but when I do, I'll tell you.

Early Riser · Feb 20, 2006

arigram said:
I've got a nice new CPP-2 which I used it for the first time tonight.
I was pretty happy with the results, I just have one question:
What's the best method for washing film and paper in 2500 and 2800 drums with the Lift?

I did a test development of two 135 films in the small 2500 series drum. For washing I used a version of the Ilford method and left the drum rotating while doing one minute washes ten times while changing the water.

What's your method?

Arigram, I use a CPP-2 and for washing do 4 water changes each running 2 minutes, followed by perma wash, followed by 6 water changes each running 1 minute. I find this removes all of the purple cast on Tmax film and should be sufficient for archival standards.

One thing to note, and it may be a no-brainer but I thought I should mention it just in case, do not use photo flo or any wetting agent on Jobo reels and tanks, and do not put photo flo, or any wetting agent through the processor.

arigram · Feb 20, 2006

Thanks Riser.
Maybe I will extend the washing to two minutes every time ... Ah, I wish I could test the results!

I have heard about not using a wetting agent inside the jobo drums before and I didn't. Why is that by the way?

hka · Feb 20, 2006

I use a Jobo Filmwasher. After 5 min rinse I'am ready. In the meantime I start to dev another film on the CPP2.
look at: Dead Link Removed

Edwardv · Feb 20, 2006

According to Kodak " the agitation will form large volumes of persistent air bubbles." When I am done washing my film I manually agitate in Photo Flo (wearing rubber gloves to protect my skin). In the pass I had problems with scum buildup and tacky residue. I solved the problem by using Photographic Solutions "Multi-purpose Darkroom Cleaner" for cleaning my Jobo and Paterson reels. Helps to use a toothbrush.

DeanC · Feb 20, 2006

Edwardv said:
According to Kodak " the agitation will form large volumes of persistent air bubbles." When I am done washing my film I manually agitate in Photo Flo (wearing rubber gloves to protect my skin).

Interesting. Photo Flo is the one darkroom chemical it never occurred to me I'd want to wear gloves when touching. It's basically just detergent, isn't it?

I develop 8x10 in a Jobo expert drum and fix with TF-4. I wash like this: 1 minute rinse, 1 minute rinse, 2 minute rinse, 4 minute rinse, 8 minute rinse. Each time using approx. the same amount of water as I used developer in the developing step. I figure it's a reasonable adaption of Ilford's washing technique to the Jobo, especially considering how quickly TF-4 washes out.

Bob F. · Feb 20, 2006

Apparently, the wetting agent tends to coat the plastic if you let it dry out. I do not wash in my CPE2: I remove the tank from the machine and stick a hose in it and run water continuously for 15 mins. A final soak in distilled + wetting agent for 5 minutes or so.

I wash out the tank and reels under a running hot water tap as soon as the film is hung up to dry; I don't give the wetting agent a chance to dry on the reels or tank.

Cheers, Bob.

arigram · Feb 20, 2006

Before the Jobo I used to just place the tanks under a faucet and let the water run inside the hole for ten or so minutes. Taking in account what Bob and Harry said, I have a question: will the use of a specialised hose like the one Jobo makes help the flow of water or is it just a gimmick equal to a normal hose?

Changeling1 · Feb 20, 2006

Arigram-

Congrats with your new processor.
Just curious where you found your new CPP-2? Did it come direct from Germany or elsewhere?

arigram · Feb 20, 2006

Thank you Changeling.
I ordered the processor from my local photo distributor in Crete, who ordered it from the Jobo representative in Athens, who probably got it from Germany. It came in pretty quickly actually and they had most of the drums available at their Athens store.

On the topic of washing, should I use the same method and times for prints as well?
Jobo states that the drums are not made for FB and I will be doing mostly RC anyway, leaving FB for trays.

pentaxuser · Feb 20, 2006

As far a film is concerned I usually wash by rotation on the Jobo and then finish off under a tube of running water into the middle of the tank. I have then used Ilford wetting agent by rotation and Yes it bubbles up like a bubble bath but provided you wash the tank and reels under hot water immediately afterwards I don't think you'll have any problems with the reels in terms of it leaving a residue on the plastic. Like Bob F I have never had any problems.

Of course you can simply invert the tank a couple of times instead. In fact based on what we had to do on a college course which was simply to put the film strip into a communal wetting agent tank for about a minute and leave it, then it would appear that simply pouring the wetting agent into the tank and just letting the film sit there is equally good.

Pentaxuser

jeroldharter · Feb 20, 2006

I run 4 x 1 minute water rinses through the processor and then remove the film drum from the processor and do several water changes with running water in a Cascade film washer. 4 rinses in the machine are adequate for cleaning the machine. I move the film to another washer so it runs automatically and I don't have to tend to the machine further.

reggie · Feb 21, 2006

arigram said:
Before the Jobo I used to just place the tanks under a faucet and let the water run inside the hole for ten or so minutes. Taking in account what Bob and Harry said, I have a question: will the use of a specialised hose like the one Jobo makes help the flow of water or is it just a gimmick equal to a normal hose?

If you are washing with reels, I think the holse they make is very nice. I especially like to take it on trips when I develop on location. I think it does a good job of regulating the proper amount of water flow thru the tank. Keep the water level in between the red lines and you are good to go. A few are usually popping up on eBay, so keep your eyes peeled.

As for washing prints in a JOBO drum, if they are fiber prints I would be concerned about the back of the print receiving sufficient wash.

-R

-R

hka · Feb 21, 2006

arigram said:
Before the Jobo I used to just place the tanks under a faucet and let the water run inside the hole for ten or so minutes. Taking in account what Bob and Harry said, I have a question: will the use of a specialised hose like the one Jobo makes help the flow of water or is it just a gimmick equal to a normal hose?

That hose is not a gimmick or equal a normal hose because it is working like an venturi. That said, when the water runs it creates a vacuum in a hardplastic tube, this tube has a small hole and is wider than the hose, and take some air in the water. This is why the call it a quick rinse hose. I have such a hose as long as I am developping my own films and that is over 30 years now. Rinsing al my negs. not more than 5 minutes and no hypo or somethings like that and all my negs. from 30 years ago are still oke. It safes also a lot of water.

Bob F. · Feb 21, 2006

arigram said:
Before the Jobo I used to just place the tanks under a faucet and let the water run inside the hole for ten or so minutes. Taking in account what Bob and Harry said, I have a question: will the use of a specialised hose like the one Jobo makes help the flow of water or is it just a gimmick equal to a normal hose?

I just remove the light-trap part from the lid and put the lid back on without locking it (to prevent the possibility of the reel rising out of the water). With the light-trap removed, an ordinary hose pipe will fit down the centre of the reel. I imagine the correct washer attachment is even simpler to use, but I've never got around to getting one.

Cheers, Bob.

reggie · Feb 21, 2006

If it's European, then it should be 220v, so you will need a converter. Before he sends it to you, maybe he can have JOBO exchange it for a 110v unit?

I used to use a converter when I lived in Germany to run 110v stuff and it was a real pain, plus at that time the converters were expensive. However, if they are small and cheaper today I guess you'll be fine.

Enjoy your JOBO. You will be very pleased with the absolute consistency that your negatives will achieve. Great for Zone System work as N+1, etc are easy to repeat.

-R

DeanC · Feb 21, 2006

jdef said:
Thanks, Reggie. Maybe I should re-think this particular unit, and look for a US model.

I picked my CPA2 w/ Lift up off eBay a couple years ago for something like $350...

Edwardv · Feb 21, 2006

DeanC said:
Interesting. Photo Flo is the one darkroom chemical it never occurred to me I'd want to wear gloves when touching. It's basically just detergent, isn't it?
QUOTE]

I have hand dermatitis (hand eczema) thus the reason I wear gloves. Chemicals, chemistry, cold water, paper etc can causes an irritation or out break which can be very painful and takes a long time to heal. The worst is when the skin splits or cracks 1/4" or 1/2" deep into the hand, blisters, inflamed etc. I can truly thank the guy who failed to secure and label the content of the toxic solvent for my hand dermatitis. So I recommend all to wear gloves when working with chemistry.

Allen Friday · Feb 22, 2006

I do a minimum of washing in my Jobo. After the fix, I run five changes of water through the tube, each at thirty seconds. I then put the film in a try with hypo clear and wash in a print/film washer, finishing with a dip in Photoflo.

The reason for the short wash in the Jobo: I rarely process just one tube. I put the second one on the Jobo for the water presoak as soon as the first is removed. I save a lot of time doing it this way.

The Jobo literature is adamant about not using photoflo in the tubes. Even if I went to washing in the tubes, I still would dip in photoflo in trays.

Allen

Washing film and paper in Jobo

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