Washing fiber paper

[rberry65]

Anybody got any good tips for washing fiber paper. Can you use hypo-clear to cut down washing time?

 

[jmcd]

I used to use a wash aid and run my archival print washer for an hour. Then I heard about the HT-2 residual hypo test, and other's shorter washing methods.

Now I shuffle my fixed prints in a tray with several exchanges of water for 5-8 minutes. This is followed by a 5-minute shuffle in a solution of Heico Permawash, a couple of exchanges of water, and two 25 minute soaks (one exchange of water, otherwise no water running) in my vertical archival washer (the second bath of soaking water becomes next day's first soaking bath.) According the my tests with HT-2, even this is overkill.

A search should turn up some good threads on HT-2.

 

[Ian Grant]

There's plenty of threads about this on APUG and you can see the Ilford recommendations here (page 4).

Ian

 

[rberry65]

Once yellow stains from improper washing start developing, can you get rid of them if the paper hasn't dryed?

 

[Rick A]

You can try rewashing, and another soak in HCA and more wash.

 

[CBG]

I'm wondering how yellow stains are forming in still wet paper. Are you using fresh stop bath or several changes of water to stop development, and get the developer out of the paper? And are you fixing thoroughly with fresh fix used in a two bath system? I suspect the problem may precede the washing phase.

Regardless, wash aids both shorten and improve the efectiveness of washing.

 

[rberry65]

I didn't know about fixing in two seperate baths untill Ian Grant explained it to me, so I suspect it was improper fixing.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I'm wondering how yellow stains are forming in still wet paper...

Toning badly fixed prints, and, of course no, you cannot wash that away.

 

[Worker 11811]

I made my own print washer out of an old plastic cutting board and a short length of 1/2" PVC pipe.

Drill 1/8" holes along the entire length of the pipe, cap one end and put a hose nipple on the other. Using conduit clamps or any suitable hardware, affix the pipe along the top edge of the board. Set it up, at an angle, in your sink and hook the hose up to the nipple. Turn the water on and adjust for temperature. Lay the print on the board. The water will trickle down over the print and wash out the chemicals.

I fix my prints for 2 minutes in Kodafix rapid fixer then for 2 minutes in hypo clearing agent. I have a tray of water where I let the soak for a few minutes until I have two or three prints done. Then I take them to the washing board where they stay for about 20 minutes. Some wash for a little longer, up to a half hour.

That's probably enough for what I usually do. Resin coated prints normally will not fray at the edges if left to wash for 30 minutes or less. I have not had any issues with fiber prints not being washed long enough but if they need to be washed longer, that's not a problem.

 

[Jim Noel]

I made my own print washer out of an old plastic cutting board and a short length of 1/2" PVC pipe.

Drill 1/8" holes along the entire length of the pipe, cap one end and put a hose nipple on the other. Using conduit clamps or any suitable hardware, affix the pipe along the top edge of the board. Set it up, at an angle, in your sink and hook the hose up to the nipple. Turn the water on and adjust for temperature. Lay the print on the board. The water will trickle down over the print and wash out the chemicals.

I fix my prints for 2 minutes in Kodafix rapid fixer then for 2 minutes in hypo clearing agent. I have a tray of water where I let the soak for a few minutes until I have two or three prints done. Then I take them to the washing board where they stay for about 20 minutes. Some wash for a little longer, up to a half hour.

That's probably enough for what I usually do. Resin coated prints normally will not fray at the edges if left to wash for 30 minutes or less. I have not had any issues with fiber prints not being washed long enough but if they need to be washed longer, that's not a problem.

That sounds like a pretty well designed system. However, it is a huge waste of water. Where I live water is a very valuable commodity and must be conserved.
Washing is a soaking out process. The fixer is removed by diluting it several times, not by washing over. This is why fill and dump systems are so successful as well as the regular method of 5 one minute soaks used with a Jobo.

 

[Worker 11811]

My board is made from an 18x24 inch nylon cutting board. The pipe runs along the long edge. It slopes down at about a 30 deg. angle. It is large enough to wash one 11x17, two 8x10 or several smaller prints. You don't have to run the water very fast. It just needs to be fast enough to keep the prints wet. With the small holes in the pipe, it doesn't take very much water to create a deluge on the washing board. Even so, it doesn't need to be a miniature version of Niagara Falls.

If I wanted to conserve water, I suppose I could submerge the board in a tub of water with the pipe end near the bottom. Then the water would wash up the board, so to speak, then trickle over the edge of the tub. I bet I could turn the water down to a mere trickle, then.

I don't have running water inside my darkroom. The water comes from a laundry sink in the other room, about 20 feet away. For water inside the darkroom, I keep two 5 gallon buckets. One is filled with clean water. The other is for slop. It's not as convenient as I would like but it works.

So, what I do is develop in the darkroom and wash in the laundry sink. I save up a couple-few prints in the plain water tray until I can take them out to the print washer in the laundry sink. The, on the next trip out, I take out a new batch of prints to be washed and bring the washed ones back and hang them up on the clothes line.

 

[dancqu]

A Very Few Dilutions Will Do

Where I live water is a very valuable commodity and must
be conserved. Washing is a soaking out process. The fixer is
removed by diluting it several times, not by washing over.

If one is not in a rush the LEAST amount of water is used by
increasing the soak time twixt water changes. The method
I use can be summed up by a quote from Fred Picker: "No
running water, no agitation! Archival washing requires
time, clean water, and print separation.

Mr. Picker has in mind a vertical slot washer minus provision
for running water. I've adapted the method for tray use by
including separator sheets of polyester batting material.
A sheet goes on tray bottom and additional sheets are
added as prints are added.

From an emptied hold and soak tray prints and separators
are transfered to a second tray for first wash. The hold and
soak tray serves for the next transfer.

To carry conservation to an Extreme one can save the last
wash water to be used as the second to last wash water.
Fresh water is used for the last wash and the first
wash water is used for the hold and soak; the
counter current use of water.

Each wash takes little of an lab workers time but soak
times become increasingly long; my last wash is over
night. For those using fixer in the usual manor a post
fix rinse - HCA - rinse prior to the hold and soak is
suggested. Following that pre wash sequence an
hour's soak in a first wash followed by an over
night will produce prints which will pass the
HT-2 test.

I won't swear to it though as I do not use fixer in the
usual manor and so have not tested. I use fixer one-shot
very dilute. My prints go directly from fix to hold and soak.
A first and second wash has produced prints showing zero
stain by the HT-2 test. Dan

 

[aste]

If one is not in a rush the LEAST amount of water is used by
increasing the soak time twixt water changes. The method
I use can be summed up by a quote from Fred Picker: "No
running water, no agitation! Archival washing requires
time, clean water, and print separation.

...

Each wash takes little of an lab workers time but soak
times become increasingly long; my last wash is over
night. For those using fixer in the usual manor a post
fix rinse - HCA - rinse prior to the hold and soak is
suggested. Following that pre wash sequence an
hour's soak in a first wash followed by an over
night will produce prints which will pass the
HT-2 test.

How many soaks are recommended and for what times?

 

[aste]

So, two baths for 90 seconds each, right?

 

[dancqu]

A Puzzling Question

How many soaks are recommended and for what times?

I included in my just previous post the number of soaks and
suggested times. To repeat, for those using fixer in the usual
manor follow the fixer with a rinse-hca-rinse sequence.

Following that sequence the print is placed in a hold&soak tray.
That tray has a bottom separator and with each additional print
another is added along with water to cover. The H&S tray can
serve as the second of the two wash trays.

Washing: Drain all the water from the H&S tray then from
top to bottom transfer the top separator and print to the
1st wash tray. Continue until all are transfered adding
fresh water as needed. I'd allow at least a hour for
soaking. The H&S tray, now the 2nd wash tray,
serves for the next transfer. Allow to soak
for several hours; I over night.

The use of a two bath fix will make more certain very
clean prints using a very minimum of water. See my
earlier post for using the water in a counter current
manor. Using water in that manor as little as 1/3
liter of water total will do for each 8x10.

If you are Puzzled, PM Dan

 

[aste]

Well, I am a little puzzled, but that's ok. I appreciate you taking the time to reply. For, now I'll just extend my tub soak method.