Washaid concentrate life?

hoffy · Sep 6, 2016

Hi again (sorry about the two threads in quick succession.....)

I have a partially used bottle of Ilford Washaid that is probably around 3 years old (possibly older - not sure). The Ilford Spec sheet says 4 years on full bottles, 6 months on half full bottles. Considering its been half full for a long time, what are the chances that the concentrate is still any good?

Cheers

ozphoto · Sep 6, 2016

I have a bottle of Agfa's Agepon, which is still viable after a lot longer than that, Hoffy.
It still works perfectly, no drying marks on any of my negs, and it certainly doesn't have any greenery growing inside the original bottle either.

Maybe mix a batch and see how it goes on a test roll of film if you're really concerned? We used to use "stabiliser" in our colour processing which was basically the same stuff. Maybe grab an unexposed roll of C41 and ask a local lab to process (we used to hand it over if requested, otherwise it went straight into the bin after the customer viewed it). You could then resoak it and test the Washaid from there?

hoffy · Sep 6, 2016

Thanks Nanette. I only use washaid, though, on FB prints! Its been that long..... sigh

ozphoto · Sep 6, 2016

If it's ok on film without leaving scum or drying marks, I'd be very confident using it with FB paper.

hoffy · Sep 6, 2016

Are you mistaking washaid with photoflo?

I am talking the hypo clear alternative!

Doremus Scudder · Sep 6, 2016

Ilford knows what they are doing and the shelf-lives of their chemistry. Trust them.

Wash-aids are sodium sulfite based and go bad due to oxidation. Old wash-aid simply won't do its job. Toss it and get new.

FWIW, it's easy to mix your own wash-aid from scratch and use it one-shot. 1 Tablespoon of sodium sulfite plus a pinch of sodium bisulfite per liter is similar to Kodak's HCA and works great unless you have really hard/mineralized water.

Best,

Doremus

hoffy · Sep 6, 2016

Thanks again Doremus. I'll see if I can get some sodium sulfite - seems like a better way to do it, then spending money on liquid chems that I end up not using fully.....

Cheers

SMBooth · Sep 6, 2016

I buy it from Goldstreet Studios Hoffy/

hoffy · Sep 6, 2016

SMBooth said:
I buy it from Goldstreet Studios Hoffy/

I'll try local first. I remember contact a chemical supply once before, but they would only sell to me by the KG! If I can't get a smaller amount, yeah, I'll get it from them.

Is the Sodium Bisulphite a required ingredient?

CMoore · Sep 7, 2016

Sense i am not exactly sure what product is being discussed.......is there a home-brew for "Foto-Flo".?
I was surprised by the lifespan on a bottle of the Ilford Ilfotol.
Just 3 years un-opened and 12 months after opening.
Good Grief...you use such a small amount of that stuff... my One Quart/500ml or whatever it is, is already pushing 14 months after opening, and i have only used about 1% of it.
Is there a Reasonable/Economical substitute for this stuff, or do you guys successfully ignore the expiration info.?
Thank You

hoffy · Sep 7, 2016

The intent with this thread was about WashAid, which assists in shortening washing times, as it helps to eliminate fixer.

Photoflo or Ilfotol is used in the final rinse to assist in drying and leaving a streak and spot free negative (or print....don't know if anyone uses these products with prints).
Now, while I don't know the specific ins and outs of the expectant life span of Ilfotol, I can report that yes, it does go off. After a while I came across regular spots on my negs. Changed to fresh Photoflo and the problem went away.

How old was the bottle? About 4 years old. How much had I used? Two tenths of not very much.

ozphoto · Sep 7, 2016

hoffy said:
Are you mistaking washaid with photoflo?

I am talking the hypo clear alternative!

Ughh yes I am.

I don't use Washaid for my prints. Instead i wash in a printwasher, and then use selenium toner at low dilution.

john_s · Sep 7, 2016

hoffy said:
........Is the Sodium Bisulphite a required ingredient?

I read that it adjusts the pH of the gelatine to optimize the diffusion of fixer. I don't know how important it is, but a lifetime supply of sodium metabisulphite (effectively the same) can be got at a home brewing shop. It is mildly acidic, and can be used as a stop bath for prints (as long as you have good ventilation because it gives off SO2).

hoffy · Sep 8, 2016

john_s said:
I read that it adjusts the pH of the gelatine to optimize the diffusion of fixer. I don't know how important it is, but a lifetime supply of sodium metabisulphite (effectively the same) can be got at a home brewing shop. It is mildly acidic, and can be used as a stop bath for prints (as long as you have good ventilation because it gives off SO2).

Thanks John

RalphLambrecht · Sep 9, 2016

hoffy said:
Hi again (sorry about the two threads in quick succession.....)

I have a partially used bottle of Ilford Washaid that is probably around 3 years old (possibly older - not sure). The Ilford Spec sheet says 4 years on full bottles, 6 months on half full bottles. Considering its been half full for a long time, what are the chances that the concentrate is still any good?

Cheers

Hoffa,it's likely to be fine but you should get into the habit of mixing your own.HCA is the easiest darkroom chemical to make yourself. a formula is in he back of WBM.

CMoore · Sep 9, 2016

Doremus Scudder said:
FWIW, it's easy to mix your own wash-aid from scratch and use it one-shot. 1 Tablespoon of sodium sulfite plus a pinch of sodium bisulfite per liter is similar to Kodak's HCA and works great unless you have really hard/mineralized water.

Is this a recipe that is pretty common, or are many of you guys making this or another version.?
Thank You

CMoore · Sep 9, 2016

Just checking.....so i need This Stuff.....?
http://stores.photoformulary.com/search.php?search_query=sodium+sulfite&x=9&y=12

and then some of this would not hurt also.....?
http://stores.photoformulary.com/sodium-bisulfite/

hoffy · Sep 9, 2016

RalphLambrecht said:
Hoffa,it's likely to be fine but you should get into the habit of mixing your own.HCA is the easiest darkroom chemical to make yourself. a formula is in he back of WBM.

Thanks. I have some Sodium Sulphite on order, so yes, I will mix my own

I just checked the recipe in your book. You suggest 100g of Sodium Sulphite. This seems like a lot. Is this correct?

CMoore · Sep 10, 2016

michael_r
Thank You

Another question......i hope water is precious to everybody everywhere, but...in california we have big water concerns. Would it make sense for me to use this wash aid while rinsing film, and maybe use less water.?
Thanks

destroya · Sep 10, 2016

Photo engineer has stated that wash aid is not really needed for B&W film if I remember correctly. I don't use it, I do the Ilford wash cycle Bd the amount of water used is not that much. What I have found is that a wash aid can help with the removal of the pink hue on tmax 100. Again I don't use a wash aid so, for my final rinse step I leave the film in water in the tank for four minutes to remove the pink. Works for me.

Doremus Scudder · Sep 10, 2016

Just to clarify...

100g of sulfite per liter is for the stock solution (1.25g of bisulfite/liter too). Dilute this 1+4 for use, which makes 20g of sulfite and 0.25 per liter of working solution (the amount of bisulfite varies from recipe to recipe; .2 or .25g/l of working solution seem most common; it's not critical). Or just mix up working solution on the spot: 20g sodium sulfite plus 0.25g of sodium bisulfite per liter (or my spoon recipe: 1 Tbsp sulfite and a generous pinch of bisulfite per liter).

Wash-aid is not needed for film, but will shorten wash times if water is an issue. Many, including Gordon Hutchings, recommend against using a wash-aid with films developed in a staining developer (e.g., PMK).

Best,

Doremus

mgb74 · Sep 10, 2016

Doremus Scudder said:
Ilford knows what they are doing and the shelf-lives of their chemistry. Trust them.

Wash-aids are sodium sulfite based and go bad due to oxidation. Old wash-aid simply won't do its job. Toss it and get new.

FWIW, it's easy to mix your own wash-aid from scratch and use it one-shot. 1 Tablespoon of sodium sulfite plus a pinch of sodium bisulfite per liter is similar to Kodak's HCA and works great unless you have really hard/mineralized water.

Best,

Doremus

Which raises the question of what is the life of powdered sodium sulfite in a capped jar? I happen to have a couple of bottle that are at least a few years old.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 10, 2016

Wash aids like Kodak HCA contain sodium sulfite which readily absorbs oxygen from the air being converted to sodium sulfate. The user will see no change in the concentrate however sodium sulfate is far less effective to getting thiosulfate out of papers and film. The shelf life of these aids will be similar to those of developers like D-76 that is 6 to 9 months.

mshchem · Sep 11, 2016

I'm looking at my copy of C.E.K. Mees' Fundamentals of Photography, c.1935, he's writing about how easy it is to simply taste your prints to check for residual hypo.. Awesome!
Mike

RalphLambrecht · Sep 11, 2016

CMoore said:
Is this a recipe that is pretty common, or are many of you guys making this or another version.?
Thank You

I use a simple 2% sodium sulfite solution one-shot.

Washaid concentrate life?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency