was it really a mistake to touch the mirror??

chris77 · Sep 17, 2015

hello again.

as i (my rz67) have had contact with salty air i cleaned the mirror (i know its a big no) using the blower, and paper lens tissue , slightly wet, then dry.
found some microscratches on the mirror afterwards (not knowing if they have been there already).

is it even possible to see a tiny loss of sharpness in the viewfinder as a result or just autosuggestion?
seems like it..

have found this offer on ebay. whats your take on that?
good or bad? easy to install it myself?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mamiya-RZ67...1Wt%2BMKURWM0iZenuolU%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Xmas · Sep 17, 2015

Yes a mistake.
Not it won't be detectable unless you are selling.
Stop while you are ahead.

paul ron · Sep 17, 2015

its ok to clean the mirror. mamiya used very good quality mirrors. just be aware not to use alcohol on front surface mirrors, it turns them blue for some reason.

first remove any dust with a gentle puff of canned air. then a clean cloth and a warm breath to fog it is all you need. another puff of canned air to remove any lint and it'll look new.

those minor scratches wont effect your pix. so dont get too obbsessive. also dont try to bend the mirror frame, its normal for it to sit higher on one corner.

paul_c5x4 · Sep 17, 2015

_*_ said:
have found this offer on ebay. whats your take on that?
good or bad? easy to install it myself?

Marty is easy to deal with - I've had a couple of mirrors off him a few months back. At the price he is selling them for, it wouldn't hurt to get one now and keep it on the shelf "just in case".

darkosaric · Sep 17, 2015

Xmas said:
Not it won't be detectable unless you are selling.

I like scratches on my expensive cameras: I know I will not sell them, because they lost value - so I use them even more .

chris77 · Sep 17, 2015

darkosaric said:
I like scratches on my expensive cameras: I know I will not be selling them, because they lost value - so I use them even more .

selling my rz67?? never !

chris77 · Sep 17, 2015

paul_c5x4 said:
Marty is easy to deal with - I've had a couple of mirrors off him a few months back. At the price he is selling them for, it wouldn't hurt to get one now and keep it on the shelf "just in case".

aha, good to know.
how do you compare the optical quality to "original" mirrors used? 100% satisfied?
tx for your feedback

Sirius Glass · Sep 17, 2015

I avoid cleaning mirrors other than using a blower to clean them off. I would rather have a camera repair man do it right than live with a messed up mirror.

Alan Gales · Sep 17, 2015

_*_ said:
hello again.

as i (my rz67) have had contact with salty air i cleaned the mirror (i know its a big no) using the blower, and paper lens tissue , slightly wet, then dry.
found some microscratches on the mirror afterwards (not knowing if they have been there already).

is it even possible to see a tiny loss of sharpness in the viewfinder as a result or just autosuggestion?
seems like it..

have found this offer on ebay. whats your take on that?
good or bad? easy to install it myself?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mamiya-RZ67...1Wt%2BMKURWM0iZenuolU%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

You worry too much. Go out and shoot and forget all about any micro scratches.

chris77 · Sep 17, 2015

Alan Gales said:
You worry too much. Go out and shoot and forget all about any micro scratches.

hi alan.
i would like to agree totally.
just realised the razor sharpness i could get looking through the waist finder loupe is no longer there.
what makes nailing focus a tiny bit harder.
but i do also agree with you... i shure can take it as it is, and will do so until i find the best way to deal with it.
i am out almost every day, and soon ready to upload some as well.. dont have a scanner these days..

flavio81 · Sep 17, 2015

_*_ said:
hello again.

as i (my rz67) have had contact with salty air i cleaned the mirror (i know its a big no) using the blower, and paper lens tissue , slightly wet, then dry.
found some microscratches on the mirror afterwards (not knowing if they have been there already).

is it even possible to see a tiny loss of sharpness in the viewfinder as a result or just autosuggestion?
seems like it..

have found this offer on ebay. whats your take on that?

First, we don't know if the scratches were there before. Probably they were. Your method of cleaning was correct, unless you were applying pressure when cleaning (that would be a big NO), or unless the blower wasn't a powerful one.

Second, this should not mess the focusing, only lower contrast a little bit on the worst case. I think it's your auto-suggestion.

Third, REPLACING THE MIRROR... that would be a big NO since, i think, that to do that you need equipment to properly align the mirror. Badly aligned mirror = bad focusing point, and that would be a biiiiig problem.

Fourth, compliments on your RZ67 and please, never sell it. You will regret it.

chris77 · Sep 18, 2015

flavio81 said:
First, we don't know if the scratches were there before. Probably they were. Your method of cleaning was correct, unless you were applying pressure when cleaning (that would be a big NO), or unless the blower wasn't a powerful one.

Second, this should not mess the focusing, only lower contrast a little bit on the worst case. I think it's your auto-suggestion.

Third, REPLACING THE MIRROR... that would be a big NO since, i think, that to do that you need equipment to properly align the mirror. Badly aligned mirror = bad focusing point, and that would be a biiiiig problem.

Fourth, compliments on your RZ67 and please, never sell it. You will regret it.

i have to partially disagree with you (although i would definitely prefer not to have to).
when it comes to critical focus using the waistfinder (+loupe) tiniest scratches seem to affect its performance.
and even if its through the fact that the contrast (between in and out of focus) is no longer as high.
the visible result is real and where there was absolute certainty that maximum sharpness is there, the eye (my eye) is now looking back and forth a little bit, just to be sure..
of course it is still very good to work with, but from my experience i would agree that the value of a "perfect" mirror's surface is not to be underrated..
splitting hairs .. maybe for some ..

paul ron · Sep 18, 2015

cleaning the mirror is not such a critical matter as some have made it to sound with contrast degredation n blah blah blah.

high quality front surface mirror is coated as are mamiya mirrors. that fleabay junk you want to replace it with is for making kaleidoscopes n toys, that is uncoated garbage.

use a clean cloth, a puff of air n a sable brush to dry clean first! then a nice warm breath to fog it, wipe with a new n clean cloth. this is the most critical link in the process. like anything in optics, it will scratch if you are rubbing abrasives into them!

salt air carries micro specs of sand. accumulated dust may have specs of abrasives... thus the initial dry cleaning with a puff of canned air n perhaps a fine sable brush to losen debre.

never use paper on optics, only clean with rag or micro fiber.

sheesh, complicate the heck of anything beyond reality here.

chris77 · Sep 18, 2015

paul ron said:
cleaning the mirror is not such a critical matter as some have made it to sound with contrast degredation n blah blah blah.

high quality front surface mirror is coated as are mamiya mirrors. that fleabay junk you want to replace it with is for making kaleidoscopes n toys, that is uncoated garbage.

use a clean cloth, a puff of air n a sable brush to dry clean first! then a nice warm breath to fog it, wipe with a new n clean cloth. this is the most critical link in the process. like anything in optics, it will scratch if you are rubbing abrasives into them!

salt air carries micro specs of sand. accumulated dust may have specs of abrasives... thus the initial dry cleaning with a puff of canned air n perhaps a fine sable brush to losen debre.

never use paper on optics, only clean with rag or micro fiber.

sheesh, complicate the heck of anything beyond reality here.

hi paul.
just two thoughts.
seaspray/salty humidity carries microspecs - d'accord!
after a very short while this becomes sticky, connects with other dust particles already there.
a puff of air will not get rid of it 100%.
so whatever you do wipe it with, you will scratch it to some extent (even if its miniscule).
whether this creates a problem or not is another question.
and secondly, just because the matter is beyond your reality, is it necessarily so for the rest of the world?
cheers
chris

paul ron · Sep 18, 2015

hold on here. you know its been exposed to a salty or dusty condition... clean it as soon as possable. dont let it sit n rot. long term storage builds up more dust n crud.

the proper procedure is blow it as you gently brush using an absolutely clean sable brush.

then after losining the potentially heavy abrasives you the go to the next step, using dampness to get the finer stuff with an absolutely clean cloth and still blowing.

regardless of how skilled you are, there will be scratching even if its microscopic. thats life on the dusty planet earth.

there are other methods to clean a fs mirror, google cleaning telescope mirrors? those mirrors a highly polished and are in a special catagory to be accurate to 1/4 wavelenth... not a comercial grade fs mirror polished to 1 to 3 wavelengths per foot. critical is not as critical as you imagine in cameras.

my reality is nearly 50 years servicing cameras, not mumble jumble or paranoia.

seeing this thread just says i havent been charging enough for my service.

we arent cleaning mirrors of a deep space telescope, its a camera mirror that has absolutely no effect on the image falling on your film.

if you are careful and have some mechanical acuity, you shouldnt have any problems. if you feel you dont have the skill... send it to a pro.

your real danger cleaning a fs mirror is trying not to crack it or bending the mounting frame. if your side bumpers are gummy, you run the chance of getting that gum on your mirror n then you have real problems.

thats my reality.

edit: re reading your post... you say regardless of the care taken to clean your mirror there will be some scratching.... then my only answer can be have it replaced every time you think its dirty. problem solved! a new mirror will cost you $45 and $75 to install because it has to be refocused to your film plane.

flavio81 · Sep 19, 2015

paul ron said:
hold on here. you know its been exposed to a salty or dusty condition... clean it as soon as possable. dont let it sit n rot. long term storage builds up more dust n crud.

the proper procedure is blow it as you gently brush using an absolutely clean sable brush.

then after losining the potentially heavy abrasives you the go to the next step, using dampness to get the finer stuff with an absolutely clean cloth and still blowing.

regardless of how skilled you are, there will be scratching even if its microscopic. thats life on the dusty planet earth.

there are other methods to clean a fs mirror, google cleaning telescope mirrors? those mirrors a highly polished and are in a special catagory to be accurate to 1/4 wavelenth... not a comercial grade fs mirror polished to 1 to 3 wavelengths per foot. critical is not as critical as you imagine in cameras.

my reality is nearly 50 years servicing cameras, not mumble jumble or paranoia.

seeing this thread just says i havent been charging enough for my service.

we arent cleaning mirrors of a deep space telescope, its a camera mirror that has absolutely no effect on the image falling on your film.

if you are careful and have some mechanical acuity, you shouldnt have any problems. if you feel you dont have the skill... send it to a pro.

your real danger cleaning a fs mirror is trying not to crack it or bending the mounting frame. if your side bumpers are gummy, you run the chance of getting that gum on your mirror n then you have real problems.

thats my reality.

edit: re reading your post... you say regardless of the care taken to clean your mirror there will be some scratching.... then my only answer can be have it replaced every time you think its dirty. problem solved! a new mirror will cost you $45 and $75 to install because it has to be refocused to your film plane.

+1

Kyle M. · Sep 19, 2015

I have read an awful lot of stuff around the internet about how bad it is to clean an SLR's mirror, and how most mirrors are front silvered and you will wipe the silvering right off. At this point I'm calling B.S. on 99% of this. I have owned nearly 50 film SLR's both 35mm and MF and I have cleaned the mirror on every one when I get it. I use a soft microfiber cloth and/or compressed air I don't use any liquid unless absolutely necessary (which it rarely is), I also make sure not to apply much pressure. I've never had a problem with this method. I've also owned cameras that came to me with fairly heavy scratches in the mirror and never once have I been able to notice them through the viewfinder. Also when it comes to focusing screens I will wipe the top side with the same cloth and blow the bottom side off with compressed air. I've never scratched or ruined a focussing screen either, I do know that the bottom side of most focussing screen will scratch even with very little pressure, I learned that years ago with my Canon AE-1P. This is just my personal experience YMMV.

Alan Gales · Sep 19, 2015

Kyle M. said:
I have owned nearly 50 film SLR's both 35mm and MF and I have cleaned the mirror on every one when I get it. I use a soft microfiber cloth and/or compressed air I don't use any liquid unless absolutely necessary (which it rarely is), I also make sure not to apply much pressure. I've never had a problem with this method.

I was told to never use compressed air on a mirror or the interior of a camera or the glass of a lens. For mirrors I have alway used a blower brush or a dry, soft microfiber cloth.

I'm not a camera repair man. It's just what I was told.

paul ron · Sep 20, 2015

focusing screens are another story.

ground glass screens can be wiped both sides. its the fesnell type that should never be wiped becase they will hold the dirt between the prismic grooves n olnl get worse the more you toutch them. just blow them off with canned air.

ive tried washing them in everyway imaginable n have never had good results. one day im going to experiment with perhaps a battery acid bath. the acid should only eat the debree n not effect the glass or plastic. im just waiting to find a junker screen to try my theory on. let you know how that turns out.

MattKing · Sep 20, 2015

paul ron said:
focusing screens are another story.

ground glass screens can be wiped both sides. its the fesnell type that should never be wiped becase they will hold the dirt between the prismic grooves n olnl get worse the more you toutch them. just blow them off with canned air.

ive tried washing them in everyway imaginable n have never had good results. one day im going to experiment with perhaps a battery acid bath. the acid should only eat the debree n not effect the glass or plastic. im just waiting to find a junker screen to try my theory on. let you know how that turns out.

I've always wondered if the ultrasonic water baths that jewelers use for rings would work with the screens.

Xmas · Sep 20, 2015

I doubt that any of the posters on this thread bother to vacuum clean or dust the house.

If you are normal it is way simple to not clean the optics, mirror or screen.

It is desirable to remove any film shards from the camera.

Do check the foam is in good condition, replace before sticky or powdery.

There are a lot of lenses, mirrors and screens that have been marred by compulsive cleaners. I have bought some of them real cheap...

CCS - compulsive cleaning syndrome

paul ron · Sep 20, 2015

MattKing said:
I've always wondered if the ultrasonic water baths that jewelers use for rings would work with the screens.

ya know, ive been meaning to get one of those just 20 years ago. hahahahaha i wonder too?

anyone try that?

paul ron · Sep 20, 2015

Xmas said:
I doubt that any of the posters on this thread bother to vacuum clean or dust the house.

If you are normal it is way simple to not clean the optics, mirror or screen.

It is desirable to remove any film shards from the camera.

Do check the foam is in good condition, replace before sticky or powdery.

There are a lot of lenses, mirrors and screens that have been marred by compulsive cleaners. I have bought some of them real cheap...

CCS - compulsive cleaning syndrome

mmm yeah cleaning marks eating coatings right off.

compulsive cleaners... i love it! otherwise us gasers might be paying market value.

chris77 · Sep 20, 2015

paul ron said:
mmm yeah cleaning marks eating coatings right off.

compulsive cleaners... i love it! otherwise us gasers might be paying market value.

if you pay the shipping i might send you my old mirror for christmas.
maybe all it needs is to shine again is "a gentle puff of canned air" and some good rubbing?

Kyle M. · Sep 20, 2015

paul ron said:
ya know, ive been meaning to get one of those just 20 years ago. hahahahaha i wonder too?

anyone try that?

I've got one of those ultrasonic cleaners but I don't have any focusing screens to try to clean in it. The only camera I currently have with a removable screen is my Mamiya 645 Super and I really don't feel like using it as a test.

was it really a mistake to touch the mirror??

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