Was i fooled? Fake Helios 44m-7?

w.out · Jan 21, 2017

I think every time I've used the internet to date or identify Iron Curtain gear I get this 'false fakes'.
"If the handle is on the left hand side it's from 1956, made in Murmansk."
"If the serial number starts with a L or a P it was made in Moscow in 1963."

And, lo and behold, I have a single piece of molded plastic made in two locations at two different points in time.

Soviet technology was amazing!

RSalles · Jan 21, 2017

Not only the name plate was fake: the box also is fake - this mf fakers go beyond the details to get our 28 bucks,

I hardly imagine it's a fake copy, but try it. The later Helios have a hell of contrast and handles the flare quite well too - a tri-tone fluoride color can even be perceived at certain angles,

Cheers,

Renato

Neil Grant · Jan 22, 2017

.... well we're all living in an era of fakes. Fake news, fake lenses and now you've got something else to get upset over... you've even got a fake box. What I think isn't under dispute, is that you've got some kind of Helios lens - just the exact model doesn't quite tally with the 'beauty disc'. I think you need to be realistic - it cost almost nothing, if it works well be happy - you weren't buying a 'strad' fiddle.

onre · Jan 22, 2017

w.out said:
I think every time I've used the internet to date or identify Iron Curtain gear I get this 'false fakes'.
"If the handle is on the left hand side it's from 1956, made in Murmansk."
"If the serial number starts with a L or a P it was made in Moscow in 1963."

And, lo and behold, I have a single piece of molded plastic made in two locations at two different points in time.

Soviet technology was amazing!

At least here in Finland it's almost a national sport to come up with false legends about the oh-so-mysterious Soviet gear. I've gotten rather sick of the phenomenon. Just recently someone sold a pastel-colored 8 mm movie camera made in USSR as a "soviet spy camera". Apparently all the Soviets ever did was spying, just like all that Russians do nowadays is crime.

BMbikerider · Jan 22, 2017

It amazes me why someone should even want to fake a Helios lens. They are/were very cheap even when new, so setting up the tooling to make the lens barrel and the focussing mechanism and then grinding/polishing/coating the lens glass just doesn't add up, It is like making a counterfeit £1 coin but costing £10 to make it.

P.S. I forgot to mention, don't believe everything you read on the web!

summicron1 · Jan 22, 2017

It is important, when buying FSU equipment, to demand the original paperwork, which indicates the date of manufacture. According to Hedric Smith, a reporter who covered the FSU when it was operating, wise soviets always tried to buy stuff made in the middle of the week. The thinking, based on wise and probably personal experience, was the workers were too hung over on Monday to do good work, and were in goof-off "I'm outa here!" Mode on Friday. Tuesday and Thursday were iffy, Wednesday was safest.

My experience with an FSU Kiev 88 bears this out.

AgX · Jan 22, 2017

Then why is "monday product" a german term, related to german goods and not to find in other languages....?

w.out · Jan 23, 2017

onre said:
At least here in Finland it's almost a national sport to come up with false legends about the oh-so-mysterious Soviet gear. I've gotten rather sick of the phenomenon. Just recently someone sold a pastel-colored 8 mm movie camera made in USSR as a "soviet spy camera". Apparently all the Soviets ever did was spying, just like all that Russians do nowadays is crime.

Tetris was a diabolical plan unleashed on the decadent West to lower productivity.

mdarnton · Jan 24, 2017

This thread conjures up the idea that there must be a heap of the "real" 44-7s somewhere that are missing their name rings, that were removed to make fakes! How can we buy those?

w.out · Jan 24, 2017

mdarnton said:
This thread conjures up the idea that there must be a heap of the "real" 44-7s somewhere that are missing their name rings, that were removed to make fakes! How can we buy those?

They've all been bought up and rebranded by Lomo. Each comes with an smudge, scratch or bloom on the glass for authentic vintage look, and they're now known as the Heliotron 3000+ Art Lens. They retail for US$699.95, or you can get one with an early bid on the Kickstarter page for just $649.95.

Helios 1984 · Jan 24, 2017

BMbikerider said:
It amazes me why someone should even want to fake a Helios lens. They are/were very cheap even when new, so setting up the tooling to make the lens barrel and the focussing mechanism and then grinding/polishing/coating the lens glass just doesn't add up, It is like making a counterfeit £1 coin but costing £10 to make it.

P.S. I forgot to mention, don't believe everything you read on the web!

I read a paper, a while ago, someone in China was jailed for selling fake eggs : /

Bobkins · Feb 2, 2017

this lens looks new
not sure how it can be faked

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152418655881?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Dan Fromm · Feb 2, 2017

Photoshop. All is photoshop. You're not half paranoid enough.

Helios 1984 · Feb 2, 2017

Did OP used his lens? I'd be very interested to see results.

cuthbert · Feb 2, 2017

thuggins said:
Best reply ever! LOL

A number of years back, shortly after the Soviet Union fell, these big, clunky Soviet era military watches became widely available and were quite popular. I bought one that ran for about three days. They were so popular that the Italians started making knock-offs of them. I read an article about all of this and the author made the point that the Italian knock-offs were a far better quality than the Russian originals.

This is incorrect: in Italy Vostoks were popular BEFORE the end of the Soviet Union, they were officially imported from 1988 and costed quite a lot of money (150.000 lire for a Komandirskie, 75 euros today, while a Poljot 3133 costed 300.000 in a time when a Speedmaster sold for 1.000.000).

Time Trend, the official imported, got the watches from Soviet Union without strap and packaging so they sourced italian leather for them (in Soviet Union watches were usually sold without strap), being export models they got the best of the production (in 2010 I bought a NOS 3133 and it still runs in COSC specs), as Komandirskies were very popular the importer also ordered a "fake" Vostok chrono with Poljot 3133 movement that was sold as a real Red Army watch while it was made by the Soviets just for the Italian market, those were the "fantasy" watches:

Still movements made by Poljot and cases by Vostok, so 100% Soviet.

Coming back to the Helios 44 line, that lens was improved through the years and the Mark7 variant is supposed to be razor sharp even by modern standards, and they are worth of double a 44m or a 44M-4, it is well known that somebody in Ukraine and Russia fake standard Mark 4 to sell them as 7.

The reason why they do that is here:

Optical Resolution (center/edge)
- Helios-44 - 35/14 lines/mm
- Helios-44-2 - 38/20 lines/mm
- Helios-44-7 - 36/17 lines/mm
- Helios-44M-4 - 38/19 lines/mm
MC Helios-44K-4 - 42/21 lines/mm
- MC Helios-44M-4 - 41/20 lines/mm
- MC Helios-44M-5 - 41/20 lines/mm
- MC Helios-44M-6 - 45/25 lines/mm
- MC Helios-44M-7 - 50/30 lines/mm

From the Mark 5 version they also are multicoated (fixed diaphragm Mark 3 is also multicoated), K-4 are multicoated too.

The M7 is supposed to be one of the best Soviet lenses ever along with the Zenitar F1.7 and the Volna 1.8 that came with the only professional Soviet Camera, the Almaz 103.

redstarjedi · Feb 2, 2017

Helios 1984 said:
Did OP used his lens? I'd be very interested to see results.

Still waiting

redstarjedi · Feb 2, 2017

cuthbert said:
This is incorrect: in Italy Vostoks were popular BEFORE the end of the Soviet Union, they were officially imported from 1988 and costed quite a lot of money (150.000 lire for a Komandirskie, 75 euros today, while a Poljot 3133 costed 300.000 in a time when a Speedmaster sold for 1.000.000).

Time Trend, the official imported, got the watches from Soviet Union without strap and packaging so they sourced italian leather for them (in Soviet Union watches were usually sold without strap), being export models they got the best of the production (in 2010 I bought a NOS 3133 and it still runs in COSC specs), as Komandirskies were very popular the importer also ordered a "fake" Vostok chrono with Poljot 3133 movement that was sold as a real Red Army watch while it was made by the Soviets just for the Italian market, those were the "fantasy" watches:

Still movements made by Poljot and cases by Vostok, so 100% Soviet.

Coming back to the Helios 44 line, that lens was improved through the years and the Mark7 variant is supposed to be razor sharp even by modern standards, and they are worth of double a 44m or a 44M-4, it is well known that somebody in Ukraine and Russia fake standard Mark 4 to sell them as 7.

The reason why they do that is here:

Optical Resolution (center/edge)

Helios-44 - 35/14 lines/mm

Helios-44-2 - 38/20 lines/mm

Helios-44-7 - 36/17 lines/mm

Helios-44M-4 - 38/19 lines/mm

MC Helios-44K-4 - 42/21 lines/mm

MC Helios-44M-4 - 41/20 lines/mm

MC Helios-44M-5 - 41/20 lines/mm

MC Helios-44M-6 - 45/25 lines/mm

MC Helios-44M-7 - 50/30 lines/mm

From the Mark 5 version they also are multicoated (fixed diaphragm Mark 3 is also multicoated), K-4 are multicoated too.

The M7 is supposed to be one of the best Soviet lenses ever along with the Zenitar F1.7 and the Volna 1.8 that came with the only professional Soviet Camera, the Almaz 103.

So which one did you think I got ?

TheFlyingCamera · Feb 3, 2017

summicron1 said:
never been quite clear on why someone thinks of the word "quality" and "russian lens" in the same sentence. Considering that folks are very literally giving away high quality pentax, zeiss, schneider and a whole range of other lenses, it seems odd.

But, whatever. Good luck.

Well, the Zenit-made glass lenses for my Lomo Belair are a rival quality-wise to anything from Zeiss. When the Russians decide to do something right, they do it RIGHT. I also have a Soviet Navy ship's clock on the wall in my house, and it keeps time as accurately as my iPhone, which is sync'd to an atomic clock.

Steve Smith · Feb 3, 2017

summicron1 said:
never been quite clear on why someone thinks of the word "quality" and "russian lens" in the same sentence.

Quality means nothing on its own. Is it good quality, poor quality, average quality, etc?

Steve.

cuthbert · Feb 3, 2017

redstarjedi said:
So which one did you think I got ?

Can you post some good pics of the lens? Front and side.

redstarjedi · Feb 3, 2017

cuthbert said:
Can you post some good pics of the lens? Front and side.

I will when it arrives.

Gerald C Koch · Feb 3, 2017

Helios 1984 said:
I read a paper, a while ago, someone in China was jailed for selling fake eggs : /

Around the turn of the last century some traveling salesmen would sell fake black pepper. It consisted of fine sawdust dyed black with a small amount of real pepper added.

Farmers would often replace a real egg in the nest with a fake one usually made of glass to encourage the hen to continue laying.

Steve Smith · Feb 6, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
Around the turn of the last century some traveling salesmen would sell fake black pepper. It consisted of fine sawdust dyed black with a small amount of real pepper added.

In Victorian England, it was possible to buy fake raspberry jam (jelly for Americans). It had tiny pieces of wood made to look (and get stuck in your teeth) the same as the seeds of raspberries.

Powdered granite was also added to flour.

Steve.

Was i fooled? Fake Helios 44m-7?

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