Warning. processing newbie looking for chemical recommendations

I have decided to take the plunge and no more heading off to have my film developed by someone else.
My films of choice are Ilford HP5, Ilford Delta 100, Efke/Adox100, Classicpan 400 and sometimes Kodak Tri-x and Fuji Neopan 100. Those are the brands of film I am currently running though my cameras.
I do not have a darkroom but a windowless mainfloor washroom. I want to keep my collection of chemicals to a reasonable size. Considering my present logistics. I would prefer concentrates but I will look at powdered developers as well. Also I would like a recommendation on a stop bath and any other chemicals I need to make some negatives that look amazing. I already have the tank and I know I will need a decent timer and therometer. Thoughts please?

Bill

For a dev for slow films eg 100 and lower. rodinal for normal dev, d76 or hc-110. ilfostop is good and odourless. and age fix is great 1-7

Bill

I agree with the other reply. Once thing I will urge you to resist, don't fall for all the 'wonder drugs' out there, and don't try too many things. That only gets confusing and doesn't allow you to get the best out of any material.

I would start with the old development standards (Rodinal (1+25 up to 1+100) or ID-11 (same as D76) both at 1+1). Any stop bath will do. For a fixer, use any rapid fixer but not the slower sodium-based fixers.

You can move on to other developers later. (I have and came back to them)

I'd say go with D-76; it works great for (almost) all films, and is easy. It IS a powder developer, but is super easy to mix up. I have recently used HC-110 as well, and it works very nicely. The liquid concentrate is a big plus, becuase it is easy to mix on the fly and you waste less developer to oxidation as you only mix what you need. I still prefer D-76, though.

Stop bath is not really necessary; a running water wash works just fine, so no need (in my opinion) to spend money or take up space there.

As far as fixers go, Kodafix is good, especially the one with the built - in hardener, and I defeinetly reccomend it.

I also suggest getting a wash aid, specfically Kodak Hypo Clear, to help wash the fixer from the film, in order to avoid 20 - 30 minute wash times. If you don't want the powdered hypo clear, Perma-Wash (Heico, I think), comes as a concentrate and is very good as well. Once again, it's not too hard to mix; you make a stock solution and dilute it for use.

The other thing that you'll [definetely] want is Photo - flow or an equivalent wetting agent this'll help you keep the negateives spot-free when they dry. This is inexpensive and will [literally] last forever.

I'll also second Ralph's reccomendation about not falling for "wonder drugs". there is really no chemical out there that will *magically* make you negatives / whatever better. Just start basic, and, when you feel comfortable with that, and only then, experiment with other chems. Does anyone else agree with me on that?

I'd stick to Rodinal if you are space constrained, and use a plain water stop. That way a small bottle of Rodinal, a small bottle of Photo-Flo, and a jug of fixer are all you need keep on hand.

OK Bill. Now for the next question: which enlarger.

Hans

Can't go wrong with Agfa Rodinal, it's pretty straighforward. You'll come across different dilutions and agitation techniques, but 1+50 is a good starting point. Check the Massive Development chart: http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html for times for all your films.

No need for stop bath when developing films as mentioned above.

Unifix/ Hypam fixer will be fine for developing and printing. Wetting agent is also recommended.

Go to a chemist or a wine making store for your themometer, should be a lot cheaper than a "photographic" one.

And have a set of clips and negative storage sleeves ready!

DBP said:

I'd stick to Rodinal if you are space constrained, and use a plain water stop. That way a small bottle of Rodinal, a small bottle of Photo-Flo, and a jug of fixer are all you need keep on hand.

Click to expand...

I would second this, based on the KISS philosophy for small non-dedicated spaces. Rodinal is a great developer and you can find out alot by searching up the many threads about it on APUG. There are other liquid concentrate developers as well, that mix easily and take little space. Pyrocat comes to mind for one, and does well with a water stop, and TF4 fixer.

Hans, I wish I could

clogz said:

OK Bill. Now for the next question: which enlarger.

Hans

Click to expand...

Hans,

The main challenge is, I have nowhere available in my house at present to have a darkroom. At this stage I will be happy to get my first roll developed at home. Stay tuned.....

Bill

Unk -

I agree with the other posters that keeping things simple is the best approach, annd also that working with liquid concentrates is preferable to mixing powders (even through that approach may be slightly more expensive since you are buying water as well as chemical).

Several folks have recommended Rodinal. While that's a great developer, it's rather hard to find since Agfa went belly-up. It is reported that other manufacturers are packaging something that is purported to be the same as Rodinal, but those options tend to me more readily available in Europe than in North America.

So here are my suggestions:

1. Developer - I like HC-110. It highly concentrated, so one bottle makes a lot of chemical. The concentrate is very syrupy, so you need to mix the entire bottle to make a stock solution, and then you can mix working solutions from that as you need it. The working solution is very dilute (dilution B is the recommended dilution - like a lot of folks, I prefer dilution H which is dilution B with twice as much water - just double the developing time), but the stock solution has a very long shelf life.

Ilford DD-X and Ilfosol are excellent alternatives. Sprint also makes a developer that is relatively easy to find on the East Coast. For folks on the West Coast, there is also Clayton.

2. Stop bath - for film, a plain water wash is often considered sufficient.

3. Fixer - I strongly recommend a rapid fixer. These come only as liquid concentrates - Ilford's product is great, and Sprint, Clayton and Heico are also very good. These generally dilute at a 1:9 ratio which means that for each measure of concentrate you need 9 measures of water to make 10 measures of the final product - and you can measure in ounces, deciliters, gallons, or whatever other unit of volume you are comfortable with.

4. You should plan to use a washing aid. The usual suspects offer good products - Sprint, Clayton, and Heico. Kodak Hypoclearing Agent is very good, but it comes as a powder and makes up to a volume that is inconvenient for me to store.

5. Finally, you need a wetting agent. Kodak PhotoFlo is the old standard - you don't use very much, so a quart bottle will last a lot of years. Bot other manufacturers also make something that works equally well.

The main issue will be finding something locally. Buying powdered concentrates by mail is fine, but when those powders are dissolved in water, the shipping weight goes up astronomically and you are more likely to run into hazardous materials shipping restrictions that will also drive up costs. So the best way to buy liquid concentrates is to find a local store that stocks what you need.

The original Agfa Rodinal is available everywhere in Europe and in the USA at Freestyle.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/

Here's another vote for Rodinal!!!

A little goes a long way and it keeps darn near forever! It will work with all of your film choices and, with some of them, will produce some really cool grain!

I played with about four or five different developers in my first year of tank processing (yeah, I know...stupid...) but I always came running back to Rodinal!!! My mistake was too many films (HP5, Delta 400, Delta3200, Pan F+, TMax100, TMax3200, PlusX125) and too many developers (D76, Rodinal, ID-11, Perceptol, Tmax). The only reason I used only one paper developer was because I bought a 5 lb tin of Dektol powder.

I may have had other different developers on my shelf; but I ALWAYS had a bottle of Rodinal...

The enlarger is not a matter of if, but when......face it, we can stick you with a fork, 'cause you're done.....you're hooked..Welcome to the Dark Side!!!

Uncle Bill -- I would recommend HC-110 to start. You can get it at Henry's or Downtown Camera. Ilford or Agfa rapid fixers are good. Buy the Ilford odourless stop bath. You'll probably be able to get a lot of the "hardware" you need (tanks, reels, changing bag, etc.) at the big Camera Fair in Woodbridge this weekend, if you're planning on going. Send me an e-mail if I can help.

I would add that if you want to get Rodinal locally, Downtown Camera has it (at least they did a few weeks ago).

re: Where to put a darkroom

Uncle Bill said:

The main challenge is, I have nowhere available in my house at present to have a darkroom. At this stage I will be happy to get my first roll developed at home. Stay tuned.....

Click to expand...

People have put darkrooms in surprisingly small spaces. For instance, check out this page, which describes a way to fit a darkroom into a corner of a bathroom. Put the enlarger and certain other items a cart with wheels and it doesn't even need to stay in the bathroom; you can roll it into a closet or something between sessions.

We...its a two piece bathroom

srs5694 said:

re: Where to put a darkroom



People have put darkrooms in surprisingly small spaces. For instance, check out this page, which describes a way to fit a darkroom into a corner of a bathroom. Put the enlarger and certain other items a cart with wheels and it doesn't even need to stay in the bathroom; you can roll it into a closet or something between sessions.

Click to expand...

A powder room actually. I have enough room to process film and that is it.
Believe me, I wish I had the proper space to have a We darkroom and learn how to fibreprint. That time will come.

Bill

Bill,

Hello from just down the 401! The reason I say that is that I know for a fact what you can and can not get locally - and the good news is, you can get everything you need, and a truckload of other stuff too.
I started with Rodinal, and its my favourite that I always come back to. One warning, though: many people do not like traditional emulsion 400 films in Rodinal (HP5+, TriX) especially from 35mm - less so from MF. Have a look at some gallery photos shot using the film+dev combo you will be using, just to see if the results look to your liking. I happend to like them, then again, I am not against visible grain. ID11/D76 may be more flexible for you, but over time I found that Rodinal does everything I need/want it to do (and there are millions of things that people have done with it that I have yet to try).
I successfully develop film on a counter top space no bigger than what you would need to eat lunch. A sink (which you have) is a bonus. I have always used water stop with no ill effects whatsoever. I recommend Ilford Rapid fix, simply because when I was a beginner (well, I still conisder myself one), it gave me consistency and ease of use. Its simple and effective - although it is not odourless, so that may be a concern for you.
As far as photoflo... I tried going without, but found it an uphill battle - so I bought some and am very happy I did. Also, distilled water may be a good friend just incase you have a lot of minerals in your water that may cause spots.
Don't sweat the small stuff. I use a walmart thermometer ( aplastic thing that hangs on the wall). A rather accomplished friend of mine uses... his finger - with great results. Just do whatever you can be consistant with. Best of luck, and have fun!

Peter.

24 May 2006

Uncle Bill:

As other posts have mentioned I would recommend Kodak D76 (Ilford ID-11) both at 1:1. You can use water for stop. It works great and is odorless. I agree that a rapid non-hardening fix is best. Kodak produces a two part rapid fix that is good and can be mixed in small batched if necessary. After washing film of fix I recommend that a wash of 5 min with either hypo clearing agent (HCA) or PermaWash. Do not forget to rinse the film with Photo-Flo (or like) before drying in as a dust free environment as possible.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Darwin

Another vote for Rodinal here. Also HC:110 is good, but use a syringe to measure the "syrup" direct rather than making stock solution, (keeps better and takes up less space).
When it comes to washing film, you can use the Ilford method to save time and water, as long as you stick to non hardening fix :- fill tank with water at same temp as processing, invert five times and empty. Re-fill with water and invert ten times, empty. Re-fill and invert fifteen times,empty. Re-fill and give twenty inversions,empty, then give a final rinse with water and photo-flo or an equivalent.... hang up to dry ! This really saves hassle, and washes very efficiently. (Ilford reckon on archival standards using this method !!! )
Regards, John.

At the risk of sounding contrarian, Rodinal gives low speed and big grain with some films and there are those who don't like or recommend it.

Also, while I heartily second John Bragg's recommendation to use the Ilford method, the original is 5-10-20, not 5-10-15-20. It's almost impossible to believe this works (even the guys at Ilford who devised it were much surprised) and most people double one of the steps or insert the 15 but I am assured it's not needed. Nor do you need to wait between washes as incorrectly stated in the FIlm Cookbook or Darkroom Cookbook (I forget which).

I'd certainly second the advice to use liquid concentrates: cleaner, quicker, and more predictable than re-using ID11/D76 (which are not always identical -- in some markets, D76 is buffered, in others, not, or at least, that was the case when Ilford last looked at it a few years ago).

As for small darkrooms, seriously consider a Nova inflatable darkroom tent, 42 inches/110cm square and 6 foot 6/2m high. I bought one in about 1990 and for three years or so it was the ONLY darkroom available to my wife Frances Schultz and myself as we wrote and illustrated books on photography and other subjects, wrote and illustrated magazine articles, and produced pictures for ourselves. We used it in our garage in California, and initially in a corner of the scullery then later in the studio when we moved back to the UK. Then, on our move to France in 2002 we used it in the living room for four months!

It's on the Nova web-site or you can see how we modified ours (in the last iteration, with a rigid interior framework for bench and shelves) in the free 'Our Darkrooms' module on our web-site at www.rogerandfrances.com.

Cheers,

Roger

Hi Roger, You are right. There is no 15 in the original. I just do it that way for added peace of mind, now you come to mention it....
Regards, John

Recomendations

Uncle Bill said:

I have decided to take the plunge and no more heading off to have my film developed by someone else. My films of choice are Ilford HP5, Ilford Delta 100, Efke/Adox100, Classicpan 400 and sometimes Kodak Tri-x and Fuji Neopan 100. I want to keep my collection of chemicals to a reasonable size. Considering my present logistics, I would prefer concentrates but I will look at powdered developers as well. Also I would like a recommendation on a stop bath and any other chemicals I need to make some negatives that look amazing. I already have the tank and I know I will need a decent timer and therometer. Thoughts please?

Bill

Click to expand...

Bill, since you're just starting out, it's good to remember the old standard: less is more. I see you're mixing standard emulsions with T-grained ones. Personally, I've never liked the T-grain look, just something too flat about it IMO.

I've tried all but 1 (Classicpan from J&C) of the films mentioned, and chemistry as well. To reduce the clutter, I'd suggest Rodinal, or HC-110 for developers. They're both liquids, and have legendary keeping properties, although I believe Rodinal holds the record.

Negatives which look amazing aren't only due to developer, but also how you process, expose, and really many different variables.

Any fixer will do the job, personally I prefer hardening fixers. Kodak's stop bath is in my darkroom, still using the same bottle for past 4 years. It will last you a long time, as well as Photo-flo for final wash.

After almost 40 years in the darkroom, I prefer a simple setup chemistry wise: Rodinal, Studional (aka Rodinal Special), HC-110. Films: Plus-X, Tri-X, Efke 100.

The best advice I can give to someone starting out, is pick 1 film, 1 developer, and experiment with it for 1 whole year, learning what you can & can't get from it, before moving onto another.

Good luck to you.

A quick warning: if you use a hardening fixer, the Ilford wash cycle won't work; you'll need to wash for a LOT longer.

Cheers,

Roger

Uncle Bill said:

The main challenge is, I have nowhere available
in my house at present to have a darkroom. Bill

Click to expand...

Think outside the envelope. I've a small space made
big when I adopted single tray processing. Also I use
chemistry one-shot, film AND paper. No need to store
jugs of this and that working strength solutions.

Skip the stop bath, water or any other. One-shot
chemistry gives fixer has no chance of developer build-up.
Developer and fixer are used once then dumped. Dilutions
are high so as to not waste chemistry. Times run a little
longer.

Seems like everyone goes for Rapid fix, ammonium
thiosulfate. I'll recommend the old standby, sodium
thiosulfate. It is a dry concentrate which has an
indefinite life span. When needed for processing
dip out a spoon full or two and let dissolve.
Fresh fix each session.

All in all I've found all goes well when there
is a low volume of work to be done. Dan

My votes:

Ilford Delta 100 - expose at EI 64, develop in Rodinal 1+50, try about 10:30

Efke R100 - expose at EI 100, develop in HC-110, dilution B, try about 6:00

Tri-X - expose at EI 400 or 500, develop in DD-X 1+4, try about 8:00; alternative: expose at EI 400, develop in HC-110, dilution B, try about 6:00

All are for 68 deg. F / 20 deg. C, Paterson tanks, gentle inversion agitation, Aristo cold light with V54 tube.

Dave