Warmtone with White Base Papers

sage · Sep 13, 2007

Hello, I have been using Forte's Polywarmtone fb for awhile now and obviously they have since been out of business for sometime, and recently I've been trying to find a replacement, basically a fiber warmtone paper that uses a white base instead of the ivory or creams that I find. Ive seen that Beregger has the VCCB papers which may be what I want though B&H has it all on back-order, so is this paper currently being made or are there other options out there that i'm not seeing? Thanks for the help.

Andrew Moxom · Sep 13, 2007

Sage, Ilford MGWT is a non cream base, as is Oriental VC WT. I also believe that Kentmere is producing a WT paper that is on both a creamy and a neutral base paper.

I am fairly taken with the Oriental WT papers. Very consistent, and way cheaper than Ilford MGWT. I also find the Ilford paper a lot slower than normal VC papers.

Forte used to make the Bergger papers also, so that supply willb e drying up as well. As an interim, Freestyle has some Arista rebranded paper that is really Forte.

Good news is that Adox in Germany is trying to make up a new version of Agfa MCC111 !! They acquired the machinery, recipe, and staff, but had to use a different paper stock. The emulsion is the same, but the paper is whiter. Depending on the outcome of this test, they should be starting real distribution in 2008. It is very good news.

sage · Sep 13, 2007

Thanks for the tips Andrew. I have been trying some of the Oriental WT, but perhaps I'm just not fixing it long enough or something that the whites still look yellowish a tad. I really liked the tinting i could get with the Forte using a copper toner, its almost a brown with a touch of red with it, but the oriental just turns to a nasty pink. Thats good news with the Adox paper, but I really would prefer something that I can use currently, as I need to make a final set to use as a portfolio for college admissions. Would it make sense to just get a massive amount of whats left of the forte papers to use, and just switch when the Adox is released, or is there a better idea out there?

Andrew Moxom · Sep 13, 2007

I think your choice then is now Ilford MGWT. It's more expensive, but really comes alive in Agfa neutol WA developer (which is still available btw). Ilford WT tones really well as well. I'm not sure that fixing would change the paper tone any but cannot say 100% for certain. Purchasing remnants of Forte's last paper run might be the way for you to go, if you can find it. As far as I know, only the semi-matte and matte versions are available in sizes larger than 8x10. You can get 8x10 glossy from Freestyle , but that's about it.

Jon Shiu · Sep 13, 2007

Hi, I really like Ilford Warmtone. However it does have a yellowish base.

Jon

sage · Sep 13, 2007

So what does the Agfa developer do differently? Ive only messed around with using different dev's for film. Is there a recipe to make it or do I buy it premixed? At my school we're only provided the Sprint developers for printing, though I'm sure its no issue if I were to get my own. I suppose to tryout the Ilford, I should just get a small pack of 5x7 to sample it out to make it cheaper starting out if thats the route I end up taking.

Andrew Moxom · Sep 13, 2007

Sage, Agfa Neutol WA is a pre-mixed liquid developer that is designed to deliver warmer (hence WA) image tones on neutral to warm tone paper. It is available from Freestyle photographic for $14.99 per 1.25 liter bottle. It lasts quite a long time as the dilutions can be varied (again to change image color) Other devs that would considered similar would be Ansco 130 which is an old Agfa recipe available from photographers formulary. I've never used it, but I hear good things about it. Also remember that llford has their own warm tone developer for their paper. Again, I've not tried that. I think your school uses the Sprint devleopers as they are availble in bulk at a great cost break.

TheFlyingCamera · Sep 13, 2007

I'd also take a look at Foma papers. In the right warmtone developer, I think they can be coaxed into a very nice warmtone on white base image.

panastasia · Sep 13, 2007

sage said:
... Would it make sense to just get a massive amount of whats left of the forte papers to use, and just switch when the Adox is released, ....

It would make sense, depending on your preference regarding tone and texture.

I personally preferred Forte papers as a replacement for Ektalure (my all time favorite which I didn't stock up on - big mistake on my part - 20 sheets left).

I haven't found a replacement for Forte yet (I have a good supply for now).

temujin · Sep 13, 2007

Bergger VCCB and VCCM are still available through Freestyle, I just received a pack of 8X10 VCCM from them 3 weeks ago. It is a great warmtone paper on a white base. Yes, Bergger is not currently producing new paper, since they had their paper coated at the Forte facilities, so all paper available is NOS. But Bergger has said they will resume production this year at a new coating facility. The big question is - how different will the paper from the new facility be from the paper coated by Forte? It is a big question to me, as VCCB and VCCM are my favorite papers.

fschifano · Sep 13, 2007

TheFlyingCamera said:
I'd also take a look at Foma papers. In the right warmtone developer, I think they can be coaxed into a very nice warmtone on white base image.

I'm not sure about the Foma papers and warmtone developers. Truth be told, I use Dektol at various dilutions for all my printing needs. It's cheap, reliable, flexible, and readily available locally. The Foma VC papers will develop a somewhat warmer tone in nothing more exotic than highly dilute (1+4) Dektol, and will respond well to selenium toner.

gainer · Sep 13, 2007

Mix Pyrocat MC but use hydroquinone in place of catechol. Use it diluted 1:2:25, A: B:Water. Use a developing tube or a small tray so you can use mix a small amount at a time. The stain is proportional, not a simple dye. Hydroquinone gives a browner image than catechol or pyrogallol. You may or may not like the result, but it's worth a try. My experiments showed that you may want to develop the negative to a little higher contrast than you would for grade 2 or use a #3 printing filter if you are using VC paper.

Zarkov · Sep 14, 2007

Forte warm toned papers

Thanks to all for this information. Just joined this forum.
I just ordered what may be the last of the Fortezo #3 paper from Satter Omega in 16x20 size glossy. Only matte varieties left in a few sizes.
Does anyone know of a supplier of the Forte PWT museum weight, my favorite paper and Satter is out of it.
Zarkov

Bruce Osgood · Sep 14, 2007

Back to the original post for a minute.

I've settled on Kentmeres' Fine Print VCFB Warmtone as a replacement to Fortes' Polywarm. In Dektol 1+2 it equals Ansco 130 as far as I can tell. Really rich blacks with separation.

Bruce Osgood · Sep 14, 2007

Oh, welcome to APUG.

Zarkov · Sep 14, 2007

Thanks Bruce.
Brooklyn? My old home town!

Warmtone with White Base Papers

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Warmtone with White Base Papers

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