Warmtone, cream base, non-matte, fiber-based papers. What are my choices?

smieglitz · Jul 16, 2008

It has been years since I have printed anything with an enlarging paper. Kodak Ektalure was my favorite paper and I'd like to match it's color and responsiveness to selenium toner with a current paper if I can. What's out there that is easy to obtain and might be around for awhile?

In order of what I want:

Fiber-based
Warmtone
Responds strongly to selenium toner (KRST) and split-tones well
Cream base
Surface similar to Kodak's G, Ilford Velvet Stipple, Luminos Charcoal R or Tapestry X, or glossy
Variable contrast
Widely available for the near future
Heavyweight

Joe

df cardwell · Jul 16, 2008

I think Dr. Who takes PayPal;
he can GET anything,
but shipping is erratic.

TheFlyingCamera · Jul 16, 2008

Foma makes a Chamois finish paper that is probably the closest thing to what you're looking for -

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_search.php?rfnp=50&q=foma+paper&rfnc=503&

Ian Grant · Jul 16, 2008

I'd suggest a good pot of English tea.

Sit ponder while it brews then dilute it well and stain the prints. Or find old stock Ilford Warmtone. Unfortunately the paper base is disappearing so you will have problems finding new products that match your criteria.

Ian

Photo Engineer · Jul 16, 2008

Or, coat your own on a paper of your choice.

PE

Andrew Moxom · Jul 16, 2008

Joe, The foma papers really are great options. Their MG 'classic' VC WT paper or #131 emulsion is what I use a lot of. It's glossy and tones extremely well in selenium for regular, or split toning work. I don't think you would be disappointed with it. It is amazing paper.

Trevor Crone · Jul 16, 2008

Has Andrew said the Foma range is worth looking at especially their new VC/FB 532 'Nature' listed as matt but has a lovely sheen more like Ilford's RC pearl surfaced papers.

There's a recent thread on this paper. (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Gary Holliday · Jul 16, 2008

Fomatone MG is your best bet, they have quite a few VC papers now..semi matt/ velvet/ gloss and the new 532 II finish which is unique.

Slavich Bromoportrait, I'm told, has a canvas texture. The Eastern European papers are the only 'different looking' papers out there.

Philippe Grunchec · Jul 17, 2008

Foma 132 (131 is white based).

Aurelien · Jul 17, 2008

I have used Foma 131 for someone who was looking for a warm paper, to replace the Agfa MCC111. Clearly, I enjoyed to work with this paper. I am not fond of warw tones usually, but this paper is very beautiful. Great response to selenium, like former Bergger Variable CB (or Forte polywarmtone). Well, these papers (132 is the same on a creamy base) are very good replacement for the disappeared references.

df cardwell · Jul 17, 2008

Joe

The hard part of this - for me -
is having been stung in the past few years by ALL PAPER makers.
(Ilford, to the lesser extent).

I just can't bring myself to order a bunch of XYZ paper,
because I remember the dance of death I went through
the LAST time I did, and either couldn't get it,
or only got a couple small packages, just enough to test for the paper I could never get.

Maybe the BEST BET in the USA will be Kentmere (sold by Luminos in the USA for years)

Kentmere is now part of the Harmon Ilford combine.

THIS IS A GREAT PLACE to say,
"FOMA is absolutely reliable over the plast x years in the USA,
stop worrying !"

Philippe Grunchec · Jul 17, 2008

Aurélien: the 131 is glossy, the 132 semi-matte, as you know.

Aurelien · Jul 17, 2008

Ah yes, that is true. I do not use the 132. If the base is the same, it is not so creamy

Andrew Moxom · Jul 17, 2008

Phillipe, no 131 is NOT a white base, it is a cream base paper.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Foma Fomatone Classic VC FB Cream Base Warmtone 8x10/100 Glossy (131) straight from the Freestyle website! 132 is their natural finished paper MATT paper on a fine art base... the same as Chamois without the warm color.

Philippe Grunchec · Jul 17, 2008

Andrew: if the 131 is creamy, the 132 is more creamy, and I would describe it as semi-matt, and the (late) Chamois (542) is textured!

Chazzy · Jul 17, 2008

Philippe Grunchec said:
Andrew: if the 131 is creamy, the 132 is more creamy, and I would describe it as semi-matt, and the (late) Chamois (542) is textured!

That's good to know--I want the creamiest.

Silverhead · Jul 18, 2008

Chazzy said:
That's good to know--I want the creamiest.

Then tone your paper with half-and-half.

Bob F. · Jul 18, 2008

Kentmere Finegrain Warmtone might be worth looking at. A semi-matt finish and a decidedly creamy paper base.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Bob.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 18, 2008

Joe, I second Andy's bid for the Foma Fomatone MG 131. It is beautiful paper. It may not be as creamy in the base as Ilford Warmtone used to be, but it is most definitely not pure white either. It tones wonderfully as stated above.
I know you were asking for variable contrast - otherwise Kentmere Kentona has a wonderful creamy base. Especially in developers like Ilford Bromophen.
Bob mentions Kentmere Finegrain Warmtone - it has fantastic tones, has pretty stark contrast and takes a bit of getting used to, and it has a fairly rough surface. But used right - it's brilliant.

My first choice would also be Foma 131 if you're looking for glossy. The textured finishe (Chamois, 542) is really warm, but is no longer manufactured by the company. I think they came out with a substitute called 532, which has a less textured surface but similar tone.

- Thomas

Rolleijoe · Jul 21, 2008

smieglitz said:
It has been years since I have printed anything with an enlarging paper. Kodak Ektalure was my favorite paper and I'd like to match it's color and responsiveness to selenium toner with a current paper if I can. What's out there that is easy to obtain and might be around for awhile?

In order of what I want:

Fiber-based
Warmtone
Responds strongly to selenium toner (KRST) and split-tones well
Cream base
Surface similar to Kodak's G, Ilford Velvet Stipple, Luminos Charcoal R or Tapestry X, or glossy
Variable contrast
Widely available for the near future
Heavyweight

Joe

Since you're being so EXACT in your quest and sounds like you wouldn't be happy with just a nice cream based fiber paper in this day & age, you're left with 1 choice, and that's Fomatone 542 available from Freestyle.

Expect to PAY for it, it's not the cheapest paper around, but the only one to fit the bill. I use Fomatone Velvet, with LPD 1:7 and am very pleased. Waiting for the right image to justify the expense of the 542 (8x0 100 sheet box is $110). http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_search.php

Philippe Grunchec · Jul 21, 2008

Thomas: the discontinued 532 had the same textured surface as the 542, but on a whiter base. The new 532 should be more similar to the 132.

smieglitz · Jul 22, 2008

Thanks for all the suggestions and information. I also found this FOMA info through one of the APUG banner ads.

joe

smieglitz · Sep 9, 2008

I just finished a couple days of printing with the FOMATONE Classic MG Glossy and Natural surface warm-tone papers and I really like them. They are very responsive to toning treatments and remind me of old Portriga Rapid in that sense. The cream base compliments the image and toning colors nicely and the Natural surface should be great for hand-coloring.

Thanks to all for their suggestions.

Joe

smieglitz · Sep 9, 2008

Here's some toning examples I just did on the Fomatone MG Classic Warm-tone Cream-base Natural 532 surface.

All the prints were split-filter printed at the same settings and developed in Silvergrain Tektol Standard developer (diluted 1+ 14) for 150 seconds.

The toners were:

Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner (KRST) diluted 1+6
Thiourea-Sepia toner (Sepia Y) @ 50 thiourea:10 NaOH:440 water for a yellow toner; ferricyanide bleach was 30 seconds
Thiourea-Sepia toner (Sepia P) @ 10 thiourea:50 NaOH: 440 water for a more purple tone; ferricyanide bleach was either 30 seconds or 300 seconds
Clerc's Thiourea-Gold Toner (Au)

1st row: no toner; KRST 30 sec; KRST 120 sec

2nd row: Sepia Y w/30 sec bleach; Sepia P w/30 sec bleach; Sepia P w/300 sec bleach

3rd row: Au 300 sec; Sepia P w/30 sec bleach then Au 300 sec; KRST 120 sec then Au 600 sec [my favorite]

4th row: Au 120 sec then KRST 120 sec; Au 300 sec then KRST 120 sec

I like the purple shadows/blue highlight split I got using selenium toner for 2 minutes followed by the gold toner for 10 minutes.

rorye · Sep 9, 2008

This is very interesting information, thanks very much for sharing your findings!
R

Warmtone, cream base, non-matte, fiber-based papers. What are my choices?

smieglitz

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Warmtone, cream base, non-matte, fiber-based papers. What are my choices?

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