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Warmtone, chocolaty gold color?

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avandesande

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Messages
1,353
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Format
Med Format Digital
I am looking for a warmtone paper that makes a nice chocolaty/gold color when developed in cold tone developer. Anyone a developer/paper combination like this?
I was messing around with Arista.EDU VC FB Warmtone in 1:1 ethol last night. It had a nice color to it but no real black..
 
I don't think you'll get that without toning.
 
Have you experimented with Forte or J&C warmtone (they are the same thing)? The tone can readily be modified with different developers. I dont know if it'll give you what you want or not, but its worth a look.
 
I am open to suggestions. I saw this in some of EW lifework prints. Maybe I need to start fooling around with amidol enlarging paper developers.

Can you get real blacks with warmtone paper? I have never used them before.

Ole said:
I don't think you'll get that without toning.
Click to expand...
 
The only time I've gotten chocolate brown was with Zonal Pro warm tone developer and Ilford Warmtone FB, then selenium toned.


Michael
 
Its been a while since I tried various formulae with Fortezo, gr.3 but when I tried some catechol recipes, via Anchell's book, I got VERY strong chocolate brown blacks. The highlights weren't gold though, maybe very, very subtly so. The downside was a pronounced graininess and the contrast looked like I had printed on gr 4. In any case, I found the results ugly so I moved on to other formulae. But I distinctly remember catechol producing loud chocolate blacks. Hope this helps.
 
avandesande said:
I am looking for a warmtone paper that makes a nice chocolaty/gold color when developed in cold tone developer. Anyone a developer/paper combination like this?
I was messing around with Arista.EDU VC FB Warmtone in 1:1 ethol last night. It had a nice color to it but no real black..
Click to expand...


Have you tried the "LITH" process?
 
avandesande said:
I am open to suggestions. I saw this in some of EW lifework prints. Maybe I need to start fooling around with amidol enlarging paper developers.

Can you get real blacks with warmtone paper? I have never used them before.
Click to expand...

And I havent tried to get "real" blacks. :smile: But I have tried to get the image tone to be just on the warm side of neutral (or on the neutralish side of warm) and you can do that. All you can do is try it and see. I havent tried any cold tone developers on it because I wanted some warmth, so I cant say what those might do.

I also liked the warmish Weston prints I saw a few years back. Most of them didnt strike me as warm, but I recall that a few of Charis were noticeably warmer.
 
I did get a chocolate brown with a Pyrocatechin developer from Ancells book.

I used Begger VCNB paper. With Ilford papers I got a reddish brown.

This was after selenium toning for permanence.
 
avandesande said:
Wayne, what paper/developer did you use to get a little warmer than neutral?
Thanks
Click to expand...


I was using Forte Polywarmtone with BW-65 from the Formulary, and later a phenidone version of Ansco 130 with some benzotriazole. The color was pretty similar. Jand C warmtone is supposedly the same. You could probably cool it off even more, as I said its very flexible. I wanted some obvious brownish warmth but without the hideous green most warmtones have, and I wanted it all without toning. If you are going to try this combo I would also try varying dilutions of selenium because that will also affect the final color. I found what I wanted without it, but it may not be the exact thing you are looking for.
 
Forte Polywarmtone Plus has always given me the richest chocolate-brown tones and very nice rich blacks when toned in a strong selenium(1:3) right after the fix. I used Ilford Bromophen for the developer. Here's an example. The actual print has a little less red in it.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
 
Sure you weren't looking at a salt print or some other related process, avandesande? They can come up with some very warm tones.
 
I'm no expert with warmtone papers and honestly have very little experience with the stuff with the exception of Adorama's fiber based glossy warmtone. The paper is much slower than the neutral or cold toned papers of the same manufacture; needing about twice the exposure for an equivalent print. Perhaps that is the reason for your weak blacks. As far as warm tone developers go, Dektol will serve fairly well if you dilute it further than the recommended 1+2. At 1+4, some cold toned papers start showing a tendency to go slightly warm. I've noticed the same thing, to a greater degree, with the warm toned paper. Save some of your old developer to mix with your fresh stuff for a warm toned developer. Experiment a little to get the ratios to your liking. Selenium toning will give a much more pronounced post processing color shift to warm tone papers than it will for many cool to neutral toned ones as well.
 
Avandesande,
Try Formulary's gold toner. You can leave the print in for up to, like 20 minutes. If your initial print has some good, deep blacks they should turn a bit chocolatety(?)
Todd
 
Or try lith printing. Fortezo can give some amazing golden midtones with chocolaty shadows.
 
I have used forte fortezo in lith, see my YMCA pool print in the gallery and got chocolate and gold results.
 
I have used a combination of a warmtone paper (Ilford WTFB or Forte Polyearmtone) toned in thiocarbamide then dunked in selenium. While the two examples (links below) are on different papers my sunflower photo is run quickly through the bleach/thiocarbamide before a full selenium tone for a more subtle yellow/gold and the acanthus photo is left for longer in the bleach/thiocarbamide for a heavy gold tone. Both papers are capable of deep blacks.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

James
 
Anyone have an idea which Forte paper Arista.EDU VC FB Warmtone corresponds too? This is weird stuff. I need to expose about 5 more stops than my usual rc papers. It was very slow to respond to development in 1:1 dektol. How long do you need to let it sit in the developer? It was about 40s before an image started to come up.
 
Rlibersky said:
I did get a chocolate brown with a Pyrocatechin developer from Ancells book.

I used Begger VCNB paper. With Ilford papers I got a reddish brown.

This was after selenium toning for permanence.
Click to expand...

I have to admit a mistake here. The reddish look came from formula #71 in Anchell's book. I got the Chocolate Browns from formula #72.

Water 750ml
Pyrocatechin 4gr
Potassium Carbonate 45gr (I used Sodium Carbonate 50gr)
PBR .4gr
Water to make 1000ml

Use full strrength at 100F
Exposure time greatly reduced

I think if you try this you would like the results
 
Rlibersky said:
PBR .4gr
Click to expand...
Shouldn't that be "KBr, 0.4g"? I assume you mean potassium brobide?
 
The Bergger VC CB is gives warm coffee blacks with white whites. I developed in Defender D55. It is not a very warm developer.
 
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