Wanting to venture into B&W Processing but confused already!!

ted_smith · May 13, 2008

Hi

I have been pursuaded by a friend who used to develop B & W to have a go at doing my own B&W 35mm film processing at home rather than sending my films off.

He explained everything to me verbally today over a cup of tea but now I'm looking at stuff on the net and am somewhat confused as to what I actually need and conversly, what I don't need.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a simple, basic 'HOW TO' which states what I need, ideally with diagrams or pictures? Better still, is there a generic 'Beginners Kit' that I can buy that has the basics for B&W processing all in one kit?

For example, I knew I needed 'Fixers', 'Film Developer' and special paper, but then when I went to www.thedarkroom.co.uk I rapidly became confused! Different liquids for different manufacturers? Do I need to use Kodak liquids with Kodak film? Ilford liquids with Ilford film, etc?

Ted

RobC · May 13, 2008

Kit you need:

film changing bag.
bottle opener or film tab retreival device.
pair of scissors
developing tank. (Paterson or jobo 1520 are good( two reels for both are advisable)
Thermometer (range 15C to 50C or above)
3 600ml plastic bottles with screw on tops (to hold mixed chemistry) Jobo make these I think.
50ml graduate
100ml graduate
300ml graduate
2 litre measuring jug (also used for mixing stock solutions)
a stirring rod
1 or more 1 litre expanding bottles (for storing stock developer).
film clips (for hanging film to dry (bulldog clips work OK))
paper negative sleeves and 4 ring binder to put them in
A kitchen washing up bowl to use as water reservoir at correct temperature.
Developer
Stop bath
Fixer
photoflow (aids even drying of film(not absolutely necessary))

Peter Williams · May 13, 2008

Pick up a copy of "Darkroom Basics and Beyond" by Roger Hicks and Frances Schultz. It has step-by-step instuctions with photos to explain the entire process of developing film and making prints. It will give you everything you need to get started.

RobC · May 13, 2008

you can get all of the above kit from

http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/

winger · May 13, 2008

Here's a link to Ilford's getting started section - http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=26

Basically, (in the dark) the film is put on the reel, then the lid is put on - the rest can occur with the lights on. The developer is dumped in (you can use any brand with any brand), the timer is started, you agitate (not shake) for about 5 seconds every 30 seconds - tipping the tank back and forth works for me. The total time depends on which developer and the temperature of the liquid (the massive development chart has combos - www.digitaltruth.com ). When the developer is dumped out, the stop bath is dumped in for 30 sec to a minute. Dump out the stop bath and add the fixer for 2-5 min (for rapid fix). After the fixer is dumped out, it's washed (run water into the tank, and do dump and fills). I usually wash for about 15 min. while I'm cleaning up everything else. Then hang it up in a clean place to dry it (I use the spare shower that no one uses).

Someone (probably JBrunner) has a video on developing film somewhere on YouTube. It makes more sense to see than to read. It's really not that tough.

jim appleyard · May 13, 2008

You may also find more here:http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool2.html

also look for a photo course at your local college or art center.

fschifano · May 13, 2008

Addressing the chemistry question is easy. First, any B&W developer will form an image with any standard (not C-41 process) B&W film. Some developers pair up better with certain films than others, but any will work with any. Ilford and Kodak make very similar developers. Kodak's Microdol-X equals Ilford's Perceptol, D-76 equals ID-11, etc. There are others. For a truly universal developer use either D-76 or ID-11, whichever is easier for you to source. There is no B&W film made which does not work well with either of these developers. Stop bath is nothing more than a dilute solution of acetic acid and water. Brand is completely unimportant here. You can substitute a plain water rinse for this, but I don't recommend it. Dismiss the claims that an acid stop bath causes pinholes or other emulsion damage. I've been using it for years and never, not once, have I seen any evidence to support this claim. Fixers are equally universal. They are formulated as either acid or neutral ph solutions of sodium or ammonium thiosulfate and some preservative, typically sodium sulfite. I prefer the ammonium thiosulfate, otherwise known as rapid fixers, for the faster action and superior capacity they provide. The only other chemical you need is some sort of wetting agent like Photoflo to prevent water marks while the film dries. If your tap water is clean enough to drink and not excessively hard, it is fine to use for processing. Distilled water, in most cases, is completely superfluous.

Arvee · May 13, 2008

Frank,

You brought up an excellent point that I have not been able to put a number to:

What is considered "excessively hard" water for photographic purposes?

Our water here in the Salt Lake Valley runs about 26-30 grains of hardness if I am using the right descriptors. I have pretty much stuck with distilled for that reason.

Do you have any data or can point me to sources that would spell this out for me?

Thanks!

Fred

fschifano · May 13, 2008

Sorry, I don't have those numbers for you. However, I can tell you that here on Long Island, all our water is ground water and there is a considerable amount of calcium in the water. Witness the crud I'm constantly cleaning up from my taps etc. Still, it does no harm and I get no water marks on my film when I use a wetting agent. I do run all the water used for processing through a filter, so that probably helps with suspended solids, but does nothing for the dissolved calcium.

declark · May 13, 2008

I like the minimalist approach, so here's my simple set up:

Liquid Stuff:
HC-110 Developer
Kodak Stop
Kodafix Hardening Fixer
Photo-Flo

Hardware:
10ml Syringe from Pharmacy to extract HC-110 syrup from bottle
(3) Plastic 500ml measuring cups from kitchen supply store (I just fill water to the 500ml line when mixing developer)
Glass thermometer, I use this to mix my developer as well.
(2) 2L bottles (1/2 gallon) for storing Stop and Fixer dilutions.
(2) hanging clips
stainless steel tanks and reels for 35mm and 120

Misc:
roll of electrical tape to seal my tank lids and keep me from opening accidentally.
A black cloth curtain on a PVC pipe for darkening my bathroom to load film on reels (I haven't tried a changing bag, but I hear too many horror stories)
And of course scissors, bottle opener (35mm canisters), filing pages etc.
Oh... and one plastic tote to store all this junk in.

That's about it. Hope it helps.

thebdt · May 13, 2008

Technically, all you need is developer and fixer. As far as I understand, people use a stop bath to ease the chemical transition on the film, and to help prolong the life of the fixer (i.e., use the fixer more than once). Some manufacturers who produce especially delicate film, such as Efke, actually recommend using a plain water stop bath.

Generally, though, you ought to use a stop bath. You don't need to buy expensive chemicals, either: very diluted lemon concentrate (from the grocery store) will act as an environmentally-friendly stop bath.

Now stop baths are good for the film, and help reduce the "shock" and stress of fixing. If you are that worried about your negative (and maybe you should be), then you might also want to look into a "Hypo clearing agent" (often called "hypo," which is a misnomer). There is some debate as to whether the clearing agent is necessary, and I will leave it up to you to research.

Finally, I can speak from personal experience, if your water is too hard you will have to buy distilled. I have a PUR water filter, and even using that + PhotoFlo I still get drying spots on my negatives. Do go ahead and test first, because distilled water is expensive and you shouldn't buy it if you don't need it. If it turns out that you do need it, you will only need it for the final PhotoFlo rinse; filtered tap water is good enough for the developing, fixing, etc.

Finally, as a relative beginner myself to this, I have perhaps the most important advice I know: pick a developer and stick with it. I know there are many choices, and as you read and learn about them you might be tempted to try each of them out. Wait.

Just, wait. Learn how to push and pull with ONE developer, learn about its nuances: how adding or subtracting developing time works, the various dilutions available to you, etc. Try the ONE developer with many different films, and get a feel for how it work with the various kinds of emulsions (Kodak, Fuji, Ilford, etc.). Once you understand a developer really well, you will know what to look for in new developers, and will have a more mature "taste" for what to look for in a developer. D76/Ilford 11 are indeed a good standard, and are very forgiving. Rodinal is also very popular; it has been around for a long time, keeps well, is forgiving, and is economical to use. You might want to spend a weekend just reading about various developers, because whatever you choose, you need to stick with it for awhile.

Murray Kelly · May 14, 2008

Does anyone still make a mono-bath? I remember making some up for the kids when they were teens so they could partly under stand my photo-madness!
For the tyro, with that and a tank all that ls left is wash water and some clothes pegs to hang up the film. A thermometer helps.
After that the mania sets in.

Murray

k8do · May 14, 2008

In reading the equipment lists above for just developing a roll of BW film, it kind of shocked me... After a lifetime of puttering in the darkroom things become so automatic you don't think about it.. I then went down to the darkroom and opened the big storage cupboard where I keep trays and tanks, etc. and took a look with fresh eyes... Lordy, lordy, what a pile of stuff... Herds of trays, 8x10 inch to four foooters... SS developing tanks like a row of cannons - single reel to two foot tall monsters... A pile of thermometers (no two reading precisely the same temp, either)... Reels galore... Film clips, measuring cups and calibrated lab beakers, some being quite collectable antiques going back into the early 1900's... 11X14 direct printing boxes, safelights, and on, and on... jeez...

ANyway, to the original poster, please follow the suggestion to get Francis and ROger Hicks book... It is not rocket sicience and you can do it - easily even... It only beocmes complicated when you get into the arcane stuff, split developing, and such...

Welcome aboard - and HAVE FUN!

denny

Murray Kelly · May 14, 2008

Nobody has sugested Diafine yet. For the real simple beginner it's two bottles used one after the other, a wash and a bottle of fixer. Don't even ned a thermometer.
Still need the tank, tho. I gave away developing roll film in trays 55 years ago.

Murray

Peter Williams · May 14, 2008

Murray Kelly said:
Nobody has sugested Diafine yet. For the real simple beginner it's two bottles used one after the other, a wash and a bottle of fixer. Don't even ned a thermometer.
Still need the tank, tho. I gave away developing roll film in trays 55 years ago.

Murray

Great point. Nothing easier to use than Diafine. And it lasts forever. Over annd over again.

Silverhead · May 14, 2008

Freestyle also has a pretty handy page on their site on the subject:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/darkroom_advisor.pdf

I think this is one of those booklets they give out for free in their store, like the Holga Manual.

srs5694 · May 14, 2008

Another point: If you check more than one source, you're almost guaranteed to get more than one way of doing things. Some of the posts have touched upon this (e.g., acid stop bath vs. water rinse after development). Unless an author is totally confused, delusional, or malicious, though, chances are any technique you find in a book or on a Web site will work. Once you've learned enough, you might find you prefer one technique to another, but for the most part you shouldn't worry about the details. One exception is times. For developer, each developer/film/temperature combination requires its own time. The Massive Dev Chart gives suggested times for most common combinations. Film and developer manufacturers also have their own charts. The other critical time is fixing time. I recommend dropping a snip of film (such as the leader), undeveloped, in fixer and timing how long it takes to clear. Use twice that time as your fixing time. (Some sources say to use three times the clearing time for T-grain films such as Kodak T-Max or Ilford Delta.) Some sources just say "fix for two minutes" or whatever, which might or might not work, since fixing time varies with the fixer, and to a lesser extent with the film.

I'll also throw in this site: The B&W Darkroom provides short tutorials on most basic darkroom topics. For film development alone, you can skip straight to the "film development" link. Of course, a printed book has the advantage that you can carry it wherever you go -- although reading it in the dark might be difficult!

fschifano · May 14, 2008

Peter Williams said:
Great point. Nothing easier to use than Diafine. And it lasts forever. Over annd over again.

Correct on both points, but Diafine is not that great as a general purpose developer. If you want to push Tri-X to speeds of 1250 to 1600, it's fantastic. It will keep the highlights in check better than any other push development technique I've seen or tried. It will give a real boost to the shadow densities when you are forced to under expose the film, which is something other developers have a hard time doing. It will deliver increased speed with other films too, though none that I've tried work as well as Tri-X. Using it as a general purpose developer when rating the film at nominal speeds will deliver flat and dense negatives that are a bitch to print. Scanning is even more difficult. You'll be much better served by something akin to D-76 for "normal" photography, even if a little more effort is involved. Why are we doing this darkroom work anyway? If we wanted it to be effortless, then we could all be using that other type of image capture technique.

ted_smith · May 14, 2008

Good grief gents...as always, apug members don't fail to deliver on detailed advice. Thanks to all for taking the time to write such comprehensive replies. I will digest it and see how I get on.

Ted

dancqu · May 14, 2008

rob champagne said:
Kit you need:
Film changing bag.

Film changing bag? True a changing bag does
provide a dark space for loading a roll of film
upon the processing reel. A bag though is
not used by most. Most have at least
some small dark area for loading the
reel and placing it in the light tight
daylight processing tank. Dan

RobC · May 14, 2008

dancqu said:
Film changing bag? True a changing bag does
provide a dark space for loading a roll of film
upon the processing reel. A bag though is
not used by most. Most have at least
some small dark area for loading the
reel and placing it in the light tight
daylight processing tank. Dan

I bow to your superior knowledge of the UK bag users market share

thebdt · May 14, 2008

One of those mini-tent things, with the sleeves, is much better than a simple bag. It's much less frustrating.

frugal · May 15, 2008

dancqu said:
Film changing bag? True a changing bag does
provide a dark space for loading a roll of film
upon the processing reel. A bag though is
not used by most. Most have at least
some small dark area for loading the
reel and placing it in the light tight
daylight processing tank. Dan

I think it's yet another case of "whatever works for you", depending on your setup a changing bag/tent might be easier or preferable. For instance, I've just bought a house which has a basement bathroom (wasn't the deciding factor for the house but was a nice bonus when I saw it was there) that will likely get turned into a darkroom at some point (it's an unfinished basement with low ceilings so I'm not impacting finished space by doing thigs) but for the short term I'm thinking of using it for film processing. I haven't checked it yet, but I'm not sure how well I can black out the room and where I'm planning to convert it to a full darkroom I'm not inclined to put much effort into blacking it out so I might end up using a changing tent (already have one for LF) to load my tanks.

Murray Kelly · May 15, 2008

For goodness sake, Ted, don't be put off from doing a few films in the simplest arrangement you can muster. Once you hold that wet film up to the light and see the images you'll be hooked.

Just go the minimalist route until you get the urge to go all 'technical'

Murray

ted_smith said:
Good grief gents...as always, apug members don't fail to deliver on detailed advice. Thanks to all for taking the time to write such comprehensive replies. I will digest it and see how I get on.

Ted

Ian Grant · May 15, 2008

Over the years despite constant darkroom access I've used a changing bag quite frequently. They are very useful particularly if you don't have a permanent darkroom setup or your processing away from home, which I do frequently.

Ted, if you want one I think I have at least 3, I can send you one FOC when I'm back in the UK in a couple of weeks.

Ian

Wanting to venture into B&W Processing but confused already!!

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