Want to learn retouching for B+W negatives

Rolleiflexible · Jul 25, 2006

Before negative retouching becomes a lost art: Can anyone point me in the direction of a source for learning how to retouch LF B+W negatives? Books, web pages, workshops, whatever -- but no snide Photoshop remarks, please.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Sanders McNew

removed account4 · Jul 25, 2006

sanders

you might want to check out these books:

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-ART-of-Reto...03QQihZ013QQcategoryZ2228QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...6135&ih=010&category=378&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1

i learned on an adams retouching desk from a woman who was trained in the 1930s. the adams is the rolls royce of retouching desks ... i sold mine last year when i was low on $$ ... lead holders and leads ( if you want to use leads instead of the liquid-stuff ) are kind of expensive.

good luck!

-john

Bob Carnie · Jul 25, 2006

A lot of negative retouchers used red coccine. sp? for black and white negative retouchng.
I would start with this and google .
Every portrait, wedding studio lab in North America had a negative retouching device on their local. You may to also try post on the PPA website re information on negative retouching..
As well Veronica Ross, taught many courses and some of her students may be well on APUG and you could google her name.
There are numerous retouchers in all the areas that support colour wedding labs
Hope this helps

Donald Miller · Jul 25, 2006

Blansky has studied under Veronica Cass. She no longer offers her classes or her materials for photo retouching. You might message him with specific questions.

What others say about the the Adams Retouch Machine is true in my experience. I don't know if any of these show up on Ebay anymore...there were a few a couple of years ago.

You also might want to look into articles on dye dodging of negatives. This is a technique that works well on VC paper. By altering the color of the dyes between blue and green you can alter the contrast in addition to dodging in a given region on the negative/print with quite repeatable results.

Most usually retouching is done on the base side of the negative...although sometimes a combination of base and emulsion side will be applicable for heavy dodging applications. It is better to build density up over several subsequent applications than to try to apply one application.

Burning is accomplished by removing negative density by using an abrasive material...mine came from Kodak.

Red cocein does work better then something like Spotone because the demarcation is less defined... the Veronica Cass Mauve retouch fluid works good for both negative and print retouching ...if you can come across some of it somewhere.

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 25, 2006

Do a search here on "negative retouching" and you should turn up one or two related threads.

I have an Adams machine and do retouching with pencils and dyes. I'm slowly learning to work with a knife, and I've managed to reinvent abrasive reducer, which is a very handy thing.

The most useful resources I've found are old retouching manuals. If they're old enough (before about 1956 or so), they'll give you information about formulating or creating anything you might need for hand retouching. I'm away from home, so I can't give specific references, but I think I've posted them here in other threads.

RobertP · Jul 25, 2006

I use an Adams retouching machine. A good source to start with and the one I still refer to at times is " Retouching From Start To Finish" by Veronica Cass Weiss

blansky · Jul 25, 2006

I studied with Veronica Cass for a week in Florida.

If you are serious about learning negative retouching, I'd call around to all the labs that you can find and try to track down who and where their retouchers went. There must be a few dozen in your state.

Then I'd ask to have then train you in retouching. You'll learn enough in a couple of days to get you started. Learning from books is all well and good but it ain't like the real thing.

Michael

Jim Jones · Jul 25, 2006

My Lootens on Photographic Enlarging and Print Quality, revised 7th edition of 1967, by J. Ghislain Lootens, has a 16 page chapter on retouching with New Coccine (or Crocein Scarlet).

df cardwell · Jul 25, 2006

Depending on what it is you want to do, you might do well to visit the library and start researching old manuals from the '30s....

PSA did some marvelous Annuals in the '30s, also look for some of the vintage / premier pictorialists like Dr max Thorek....a lot can be done with pencil... Kodak will also have lots of info, from the 40s and 50s.

Check around some of the old photo hangouts - labs, galleries, photo clubs: there will be a few old timers left to show you the ropes... once begun, you'll pick it up quickly

Bob Carnie · Jul 26, 2006

Sanders

I was mistaken , the name indeed was Veronica Cass. my apologies.

As others point out the best way to proceed is to find a classic retoucher and study with them for a few days and you will gain confidence you need.
I may make another name error here but one of the best photographic shows I have ever seen was by Lillian Bass, sp??
Her fashion work is amazing and I believe she retouched her negatives extensively to create some truly beautiful photographic prints.

removed account4 · Jul 26, 2006

df cardwell said:
Depending on what it is you want to do, you might do well to visit the library and start researching old manuals from the '30s....

PSA did some marvelous Annuals in the '30s, also look for some of the vintage / premier pictorialists like Dr max Thorek....a lot can be done with pencil... Kodak will also have lots of info, from the 40s and 50s.

Check around some of the old photo hangouts - labs, galleries, photo clubs: there will be a few old timers left to show you the ropes... once begun, you'll pick it up quickly

coursebooks from the new york institute of photography are a good resource too.

fotch · Jul 26, 2006

Veronica Cass Video Course

I have a Veronica Cass VHS course that we found helpful.

My wife did most of the retouch work. I did the photographic part. My wife was/is pretty good at print retouching. Veronica is very knowledgeable and a good teacher.

I have other stuff, books, supplies, and the tape that I plan to find a new home for. I will post at APUG soon.

Is there any kind of a photographers association that has a library for its members where you can borrow books and tapes? I know in the Horology area there is (my other interest).

Good Luck to you.
Jim

Early Riser · Jul 27, 2006

Why use an Adams retouching machine? Isn't it basically a light box and a magnifier? Or am I missing something?

blansky · Jul 27, 2006

An Adams Retouching Machine IS just a light box and a magnifier.

However you can control the intensity of the light and it's pretty ergonomically designed and often very cheap on ebay.

It does have another option and that is the vibration that was pretty necessary when people were doing pencil retouching, like back in the Hollywood Glamor era.

I still use the vibration at about 10 even though I only use dyes.

You can retouch dyes with a light table but Adams Machine works efficiently and well.

Michael

Early Riser · Jul 27, 2006

I sometimes use a stereomicroscope or a industrial illuminated maginifier to spot prints. I have avoided spotting negatives but will now start removing pinholes on the neg instead of bleaching/restoring them on the print. Is the Kodak Crocein Scarlet the best material to use for this?

Donald Miller · Jul 27, 2006

Early Riser said:
I sometimes use a stereomicroscope or a industrial illuminated maginifier to spot prints. I have avoided spotting negatives but will now start removing pinholes on the neg instead of bleaching/restoring them on the print. Is the Kodak Crocein Scarlet the best material to use for this?

It's what I use.

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 27, 2006

Depends on the pinhole. Another method is to stipple the base side of the film with a sharp stylus like a needle perpendicular to the film over the pinhole, diffusing the light in this area. It's surprisingly effective, but try it first on a scrap neg to see how it works for you and to get the hang of how much stippling you need.

The Adams Machine has adjustible vibration for pencil and graphite retouching, and it's also well designed ergonomically. There is a rest for your wrist, so your hand doesn't rest on the light table or the film; it's at a convenient angle so you can sit upright while working; and the cradle that holds the negative over the light can be rotated so you can work comfortably without rubbing the film against the light table.

removed account4 · Jul 27, 2006

there are other retouching "machines / desks" if you can call it that aren't nearly as sophisticated as the adams desk. i have to admit in the almost 20 years that i had my adams machine, i never once used the motor. i used leads, but motor off. ...

JBrunner · Jul 31, 2006

What kind of pencils/leads are currently used/available?

blansky · Jul 31, 2006

I think you'll find that nobody in "pro" labs and retouching pros use anything but dyes in the last couple of decades at least.

People who used leads or wish to use them can still probably still find them in art type stores.

Michael

Donald Miller · Jul 31, 2006

JBrunner said:
What kind of pencils/leads are currently used/available?

Someone sent me a Koh I Noor no 1555...It works really well if you want to deal with pencils.

My used Adams machine came with a variety of lead of varying hardnesses most were Koh I Noor..

Want to learn retouching for B+W negatives

Rolleiflexible

removed account4

Bob Carnie

Donald Miller

David A. Goldfarb

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RobertP

blansky

Jim Jones

df cardwell

Bob Carnie

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fotch

Early Riser

blansky

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Donald Miller

David A. Goldfarb

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removed account4

JBrunner

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blansky

Donald Miller

Want to learn retouching for B+W negatives

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