Want lots of grain, like in the old days with Kodak 2475?

Hi. I registered many years ago, but really didn't get back into film until this year. Now I shoot all of my B&W with film, and stick with digital only in color, so I'll be around here much more often.

I put myself through university as a freelance photog and darkroom rat, and now I teach photography to classes in my "spare time," whatever that is. I'm a professional musician, teach and conduct a large amateur orchestra, so I'm a busy guy, and being around all of those musicians gives me GREAT subject matter for photography.

One of the questions I'm often asked is how to get more grain in prints. The usual thing is "I miss Kodak 2475 Recording film"

Well, you can search Ebay and get lucky occasionally, but what I'm doing and have been doing is using sub-miniature cameras (specifically the Olympus Pen FT), Tri-X and Rodinal at 1:25. You'll get all the grain you want, and the image will be much sharper than 2475, which was pretty muddy to start with.

You an also use Tri-X and Dektol (straight, 4 minutes), and the grain will be more noticeable but not as sharp.

The Pen half-frame camera is very high quality, readily available, and not that expensive. The lenses are sharp, and with this combination, you should be in Grain City and very happy.

substitute Fomapan 400 for trix
use less dilute rodinal
water stop
temper to 3F
golf ball grain...

you may need reflector to soften shadows cause the Foma does not have the dynamic range and you may burn highlights

I use 1+100 60mins stand but still burn

alternatively try Kentmere 400 it does not need the special treatment above.

HP5+ would be too similar to Trix

The quote from another photog... on a 5x7

how did you get that grain?

Hi,

I think you mention most of the things that will drive graininess, i.e. small format film, developers such as Rodinal that does not dissolve grain. I want to add pushing exposure and development. Tri-X at 800 or 1600 will give you lots of the classical photo-journalist look and you will still get some nice detail in the shadows.

Hello
I sort of miss Recording Film, but Delta 3200 is a good replacement for it. By all accounts, it's actual speed is closer to 1000 ISO which is what I always rated recording film at. The grain will change depending on the developer, contrast of the negative and of course, size of print. For a sharp grain, Rodinal is good though there are many other choices, but for a bit more, try using print dev. Think there are previous forums here featuring such with recommended dilutions and times. However, tonality and shadow detail will probably not be as good.

Develop a fast film like HP5+ in D-72 (Dektol), 1+2 or even 1+1. You'll have to experiment to find the best time.

moltogordo said:

... what I'm doing and have been doing is using sub-miniature cameras (specifically the Olympus Pen FT)...

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This is the most reliable way I know to get grain. Shoot smaller formats of film.

400 speed 35mm film, develop in Rodinal, aggressive agitation.

Incredibly creative group of people! Where there is a will, there is a way! I'll be trying some of those things for sure! I've not used Fomapan 400 - is it grainier than Tri-X?

I find HP5 a bit less grainy than Tri-X, but maybe that's because I use a finegrain developer on HP5 . . . . . .

Also, as said by Bill Burk, I use a smaller format when I want the grain. But lots of stuff to try here! I tend to be an experimenter.

moltogordo said:

I've not used Fomapan 400 - is it grainier than Tri-X?

I find HP5 a bit less grainy than Tri-X, but maybe that's because I use a finegrain developer on HP5 . . . . . .

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Fomapan seems to be more grainy than HP5+ donno about Trix.

It should be cheaper than either.

I've compared old Tri-X and new Tri-X, and the old just has so much more grain than the new, get some of that if you can...

When Kodak moved all their film coating to a single plant the formulation of Tri-X was changed to include new film technologies developed for the TMax films. The resulting film a much finer grained than the old Tri-X and so Kodak changed its name to 400TX. When 400TX and HP5+ are developed in the same developer then the Kodak film will be finer grained. The Kodak film is the finest grained of the non T-grain 400 speed films.

2475 used to give some nice pencil drawing effects with portraits printed on matte paper. It was much smoother than pushed Tri-X.

Another idea: Ilford SFX200 without IR filter, developed in Tetenal Ultrafin liquid. Gives grainy but very sharp negatives. I'm not sure if that's the look you are trying to achieve but it may be worth a try. May not be fast enough for your needs at 200ASA, though.


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vkoehne said:

Another idea: Ilford SFX200 without IR filter, developed in Tetenal Ultrafin liquid. Gives grainy but very sharp negatives. I'm not sure if that's the look you are trying to achieve but it may be worth a try. May not be fast enough for your needs at 200ASA, though.

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That's a very interesting idea . . . . I'll try this one for sure next payday. How do you think it would come off in Rodinal?

moltogordo said:

That's a very interesting idea . . . . I'll try this one for sure next payday. How do you think it would come off in Rodinal?

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Here is SFX in HC110 - dilution H if I recall correctly.

This was my entry in the APUG members competition that Ilford ran in 2009.