Walkin' around money, what to do?

Rich Ullsmith · Jan 22, 2016

Krimar photo just called: my beloved rolleicord is beyond repair. $40 to ship the body back home . . .a sad day.

Put in extra time over the holidays, so I have some play money. I want a new 4X5 camera. I have an old Calumet on a rail, it is not practical for what I like to do so it never gets used. I'm thinking either Crown Graphic or Linhof. Don't know a damn thing about either, except a general guide of ebay prices. Looks like a Crown Graphic with a schneider lens, fully funtional, can be got for $500-$700. Linhofs are more, but I don't think I would use it enough to justify over $1000.

In general, what should I be looking for in either of these? For instance: "rangefinder works but not accurate." Is that a deal breaker? Is there anything I need to look for that would be unserviceable in these cameras? I can see obvious things like bellows, but there is a lot here I do not know.

Any education here would be helpful. Thanks up front, I'll check back in the p.m.

Dan Fromm · Jan 22, 2016

For advice on a Graphic, go to www.graflex.org. I haven't checked prices recently but $500-700 for a working 4x5 Crown with lens seems high. Better to buy camera and lens separately.

If you need a rangefinder and want to use more than one lens a Graphic is a poor choice.

bdial · Jan 22, 2016

Agreed, 5-700 for a Crown seems high unless it's in brand new condition in a box. I would think more like 250 + or -, including a lens would be more like it.

Crowns and Speeds are fine, but not very versatile unless using it hand held is a requirement. Linhofs are somewhat similar but with less limitations, though you pay for that. For example you can use different lenses with the rangefinder. You also get a rotating back and limited but useful rear movements.

If you're ok with getting into a $700 realm you can get a field camera like a Zone VI or one of the many similar ones, which will give you a complete range of movements in a very portable camera, though not really hand-holdable.

winger · Jan 22, 2016

Sometimes you see used Chamonix for 800ish. Granted, that's with no lenses or holders, but you might have those if you have a monorail. I got my Crown for $100, with a lens and the rangefinder works (might have been lucky). It will depend on how patient you are.

shutterfinger · Jan 22, 2016

For instance: "rangefinder works but not accurate." Is that a deal breaker?

Graphics use either a side rangefinder or a top rangefinder. A side rangefinder can be adjusted if it is a Kalart, if a Hugo Meyer its for one focal length only and likely a mismatch.
Top rangefinder Graphics and Linhoff use a cam. A mismatch of lens and cam or misalignment of the rangefinder is the problem. Finding the correct cam will be difficult.

A Crown Graphic in working order with lens should run $300-$500.

Len Middleton · Jan 22, 2016

The Linhof will have more movements than the Graflex. Suggest a Technika IV, V, or Master, NOT a III.

Movements on the Linhof Technikas are limited relative to a monorail, but does include front rise, shift, tilt and swing, and rear tilt and swing. The Graflex if I remember right have front shift, tilt (backward), and swing, and no rear movements.

A wood field camera is a reasonable solution especially if you are not going to cam the lenses and use it hand-held.

I own a Technika V, and previously a Technika IV, so know them fairly well.

Ken Nadvornick · Jan 22, 2016

Couple of years back I got my Crown Graphic w/135 lens for $350 shipped. It was as close to brand new as you can get. Used two or three times before the son told dad he'd rather have a Hassy. Then repacked and kept on a bedroom closet shelf.

I was understandably leery, but I couldn't believe the condition when I opened the shipping box. Everything worked as smooth as new. Everything was in perfect alignment. Everything shined without a spec of dust or dirt.

I know prices have gone up since then. But don't pay too much if you go the Crown route. Current asking prices on eBay can be delusional. Mine came from eBay, but the seller was completely honest. And a very nice fellow as well.

Ken

Rich Ullsmith · Jan 22, 2016

Okay, this is all good. It appeared to me that for the Graphics, a working rangefinder is required for any specific lens if you want to use it hand-held. Is there any way of knowing (unless the seller is knowledgeable) if the "cam" or rangefinder is calibrated to the lens that is being sold with the camera?

Thanks for the Graflex link, I'll look at that tonight.

shutterfinger · Jan 22, 2016

Is there any way of knowing (unless the seller is knowledgeable) if the "cam" or rangefinder is calibrated to the lens that is being sold with the camera?

No.
A complete mismatch will have lens and rangefinder infinity in disagreement. With infinity in agreement for both the rangefinder and lens they will disagree at closer distances starting around 25 feet to closest focus distance of usually 4 to 10 feet depending on lens focal length.

chromacomaphoto · Jan 22, 2016

I realise that it's not exactly helping the thread or your question that much but my interest was piqued by the unrepairable Rollei background, what was so far gone with it?

John Koehrer · Jan 22, 2016

Within the last week or two there have been a couple of Crowns with lens around the $300.00 mark.
Chicago, Rockford, Il and Madison Wi.
I'm West of Chicago and these aren't too bad a drive so I check these often. Face it, I'm still looking for the $100 Leica kit. No Joy yet.

Sirius Glass · Jan 22, 2016

I use a 4"x5" Pacemaker Speed Graphic hand held and as a view camera.

HiHoSilver · Jan 22, 2016

Rich, I'm not smart about view cams, but the graflex views w/out lens seem pretty cheap.
http://bluemooncamera.com/inventory.php?menuID=0&catID=100&deptID=181

'Sad to hear of the Rollei's demise. They seem really sweet to me. Although they don't have the bragging rights of the rollei, the zeiss ikoflex can be had pretty reasonably also. The shots from the Ikonta make me think if I ever wanted a TLR, I'd probably try the zeiss.

Jim Jones · Jan 23, 2016

Graphic and Linhof aren't the only 4x5 press cameras, nor even the best for some people. Burke & James made a basic press camera with front tilt and rise and a revolving back. it used the once near ubiquitous 4 inch lens board. The MPP and the Meridian are closer to the Linhof in performance. The somewhat scarce Meridian uses a proprietary lens board, although a good machinist can fabricate those easily. The Busch was well made, but used a small proprietary lens board. These last three cameras also featured a revolving back.

Rich Ullsmith · Jan 23, 2016

Film advance, double frames, then it froze. Krimart CLA'd the camera maybe 10 years ago. His English is not so good, so I didn't get into the nuts and bolts of the problem, but I trust him. I have a Hasselblad too, but got more good negs from the rollei for the simple reason I carried it around more. Very light, and it was free to me so I was not so afraid of damaging it.

The Graflex site is really too much info without having a camera in my hand. There are people out there selling their Crown Graphics with guarantees, they are at a premium but to tell the truth I need another "project" on my hands less than I need the money, so I don't mind paying the piper.

I'm in no hurry here, so I have time for an education.

EdSawyer · Jan 23, 2016

I have a nice pacemaker crown, with lens and calibrated rangefinder, and graflok back, that is surplus to my needs. It's in very nice shape, has been CLA'ed, has no issues. Feel free to PM if interested.

Ken Nadvornick · Jan 23, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
I use a 4"x5" Pacemaker Speed Graphic hand held and as a view camera.

I've never used mine in any other way than handheld. I do use one of those massive Suntar fully formed left-hand brackets, though. I've even trimmed out a quarter-inch strip from the rubber mounting pad on the grip to match the left-side ridge on the bottom of the camera. This allows a flush and very snug fit and prevents slippage and rotation.

For the OP, worth keeping in mind is that these press cameras are beasts and novelties by modern day standards. They're big, ungainly, and have weird stuff sticking out everywhere. They're also heavy. With grip and film holder and Graflite flashbulb attachment mine is over ten pounds. Swap for the Polaroid 545 holder (for New55) and it's almost twelve pounds.

This is a lot to carry around for a daylong walk around session. It's also an attention magnet. Lots of public interest. Lots of questions. And with those, often not much chance for discrete photo opportunities.

When I made (there was a url link here which no longer exists), it looks like a quietly stolen little private moment. But the reality was there were 6-8 onlookers standing right next to and behind me out in public just watching. Several had been chatting on for twenty minutes or so about their grandfather's cameras. And how much they admired my camera. And if I could still get film for that. And whether they should dig out their old Minoltas. And, and...

I had to politely but forcefully disengage just to make that negative. Something to keep in mind if you are in the market for one of these classics.

Ken

fotch · Jan 23, 2016

The ideal Speed or Crown Graphic will have to original lens and focus properly. I would avoid any that have had rough treatment. Those owned by amateurs rather than professionals will generally be in very good condition. Really a great camera to own & use.

shutterfinger · Jan 23, 2016

There are several Graflex/Graphic catalogs and brochures at http://www.cameraeccentric.com/info.html
The ones of most interest to you are
Speed/Crown early version http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_5.html
Speed/Crown later version http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_4.html
Some cameras will have features found in both of the booklets, namely the type of back in use.
Super/Super Speed Graphic http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_6.html
the Super Speed has a lens in Graphic 1000 shutter and different trim piece with the camera model on it otherwise they are identical.

Rich Ullsmith · Jan 23, 2016

Thanks for all the resources. Ken, I understand the troubles with a camera such as this, but it has to be 100% than my calumet on the rail. My attraction to the press camera is the option of point-and-shoot, tho that would not be the primary purpose. (Gorgeous negative there btw.)

Paul Howell · Jan 23, 2016

Jim Jones said:
Graphic and Linhof aren't the only 4x5 press cameras, nor even the best for some people. Burke & James made a basic press camera with front tilt and rise and a revolving back. it used the once near ubiquitous 4 inch lens board. The MPP and the Meridian are closer to the Linhof in performance. The somewhat scarce Meridian uses a proprietary lens board, although a good machinist can fabricate those easily. The Busch was well made, but used a small proprietary lens board. These last three cameras also featured a revolving back.

Busch made a 4X5 press sold as Bessler to the Air Force, had 4 (I recall 4) cams covering either a 127 or 135 to 210, focal plan shutter, a heavy camera. As late the early 70s, when I was in the AF, there were a few around but mostly had been replaced Super Speeds. A few years ago had to chance to buy a model in very good condition with 2 of the matched lens, but passed as I use the Crown which I find be early camera to hand hold. I think the Busch's were metal while Speeds and Crowns were wood, the Superspeed was metal.

Alan Gales · Jan 23, 2016

Another option would be a Wista RF. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/cameras/wista-rf/

Theo Sulphate · Jan 23, 2016

If you think you'd like to stay with a TLR, consider the Yashica 124G - I've seen some beautiful ones for sale here on APUG.

jimgalli · Jan 25, 2016

Investigate the Chamonix 4X5 camera. Gorgeous machines and pleasure in use. It can do SO much more than an old Press camera.

Walkin' around money, what to do?

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