Voigtlander Vitessa on Local CL

Ricochetrider · Jan 17, 2019

Looking at a Vitessa on our local craigs list, 75.00, ad says "mint" condition and from the photos, it looks it. Comes with original box & paperwork and a Voigltander flash unit. I'm seriously. considering this, I know it's "quirky" with the "plunger" and focus winding *knob*/mecahnism? But I don't mind these and from reading somewhat recent reviews and looking at images people have shot with them, it looks like a fine bit of functional, vintage camera art with a killer lens. I would buy it to use it.

Does anyone have any experience with a Vitessa?
Is this fully mechanical, or would it require an unobtainable battery of some sort?
What about the bellows? Seems like it could crack and then what.

Thanks.

Huss · Jan 17, 2019

I have a Vitessa with the plunger etc. Mine does not have a meter, but it does have the 50mm f2 lens. I think most had the 3.5. The Vitessas that do have meters do not use batteries as they are solar energized, and usually dead by now.
Looking at that craigslist ad, it seems very nice. But this is a crap shoot - a very old camera that does not look like it has been used may or may not work properly. The price is very good though. One thing to know, the rf mechanism is very hard to adjust so if it needs service, you may be out of luck. Then again, this thing is only $75.

Ricochetrider · Jan 17, 2019

Thanks. I'lll probably call the person and ask some questions. Perhaps I'll even drive out to see it in person and take close look at it, see if I can fire it thru the various speed settings, etc. I'd like to have a vintage 35mm camera but in the end don't want to throw money at. something that isn't going to function fully.

Kino · Jan 17, 2019

I have a Vitessa L "barn door" camera wth the 2.8 lens and its great. The light meter on my camera works, but be aware it uses the EV (exposure value) system whereby the meter reads out an EV value, you pull down and rotate an aperture lever latch on the bottom of the shutter and match the EV value. This ratcheting lever lightly couples the shutter speed and f-stop values together for that reading and you can then move the f-stop ring through out the applicable range for equivalent exposures. Sounds more complex than it actually is in use, but some people find the ratcheting interlock between the shutter speeds and the f-stops annoying.

You CAN vary the shutter speed and f-stop setting independent of the EV interlock, but it can be fiddly. I find that if you determine and set your f-stop FIRST, then you can often set your shutter speed and shoot, however if the last exposure was dramatically different from what you are attempting to shoot, you might have to adjust either the shutter speed or f-stop ring twice, due to the limits of the EV range of the last exposure.

The Exposure Value System (EVS) is explained here: https://www.picturecorrect.com/tips/the-exposure-value-system-evs/

Bad things to look for in a Vitessa:

1. Rangefinder mirror detached: no functioning rangefinder patch.
2. Shutter sticky: non-functional or slow speeds are sticky.
3. Focus grinds hard: something's in the focus gearing.
4. Fungus in the viewfinder and/or bad rangefinder alighnment - a small offset is workable, but some can be drastically out of alignment.

My Vitessa had a detached mirror, but was otherwise in very good shape. It was quite the endeavor to pull the top off and re-glue the mirror, but I did it and love the camera.

Depends on how badly you want to it. If it is truly mint and no problems. $75 is a steal...

R.Gould · Jan 18, 2019

Certainly worth the money, lovely cameras, I have 3, a barndoors L and t Vitessa T's, complete with a full set of lenses and I love them, very fast to use with the plunger and great results,
Richard

Ricochetrider · Jan 18, 2019

Thank you, everyone. I intend to go take a look at it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

GRHazelton · Jan 18, 2019

I have the barn door Vitessa with the f2 Ultron. Wonderful camera! Here's a link to an instruction manual: http://www.cameramanuals.org/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_vitessa_t.pdf
Do send Mike Butkus the compiler of this invaluable resource a few bucks so he can keep up the good work.
I'd suggest slowing the "rise" of the wind plunger with your finger. No need to shock this old mechanism....

Deleted member 88956 · Feb 7, 2019

GRHazelton said:
I have the barn door Vitessa with the f2 Ultron. Wonderful camera! Here's a link to an instruction manual: http://www.cameramanuals.org/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_vitessa_t.pdf
Do send Mike Butkus the compiler of this invaluable resource a few bucks so he can keep up the good work.
I'd suggest slowing the "rise" of the wind plunger with your finger. No need to shock this old mechanism....

Ditto on the plunger soft release. I will also add that locking the plunger down for storage is or can be a gentle exercise. While my barndoor L locks down nicely, my T would not when using the same technique as on L. And then I found out all I had to do was go slow and clicks into place every time.

Vitessa are great cameras but mechanically complex and won't take heavy or rapid use nicely. They are still very fast and plunger does work as advertised (if not broken that is, gears stripped etc) Since you're looking at a mint one, it hardly had any use and all you can expect is shutter being slow (or even not releasing at first). If that's the case work it for a few days before deciding on service. Do check the plunger function though, it should pose no troubles in advancing / cocking shutter or locking down for storage. If it fails the plunger full functionality test I'd pass.

BTW, thumb wheel focusing is super fast (or it should be), if it feels like a drag to focus it will need to be worked (like the shutter) and possibly serviced.

AgX · Feb 7, 2019

There are about 30 Vitessa models. Even including type 126.

I got a 35mm one with a plunger and non-retractable barrel, but got no idea what "focus winding" means.

Deleted member 88956 · Feb 7, 2019

AgX said:
There are about 30 Vitessa models. Even including type 126.

I got a 35mm one with a plunger and non-retractable barrel, but got no idea what "focus winding" means.

He was referring to thumb wheel for focusing, at least that is my assumption.

All Vitessas outside the plunger models were entirely different cameras. It is a shame what Voigtlander brand has done to Vitessa name.

AgX · Feb 7, 2019

I see... the Vitessa L, plunger and retractable lens (barndoors), has focusing via a thumb-wheel protruding through the back and a scale on the top.

That wheel is typically not shown on photos and thus overlooked by me. The idea behind it obviously is to facilitate focusing in spite of the barndoors.
Moreover it likely enables to operate the camera without taking a hand off the body for focusing. In contrast to the Vitessa T where one has for instance to take the left hand off the body and plunger to grasp the focusing ring/tab.

But features one sees in photos might not work out in practice...
Maybe Kino and Witold enlighten us on this feature.

Deleted member 88956 · Feb 7, 2019

AgX said:
I see... the Vitessa L, plunger and retractable lens (barndoors), has focusing via a thumb-wheel protruding through the back and a scale on the top.

That wheel is typically not shown on photos and thus overlooked by me. The idea behind it obviously is to facilitate focusing in spite of the barndoors.
Moreover it likely enables to operate the camera without taking a hand off the body for focusing. In contrast to the Vitessa T where one has for instance to take the left hand off the body and plunger to grasp the focusing ring/tab.

But features one sees in photos might not work out in practice...
Maybe Kino and Witold enlighten us on this feature.

The thumb wheel works like a charm. Fujica rangefinders (at least some of them, V2, EE 35) have same focusing style. Surely they could be stiff which would kill the idea, but I have 5 cameras with this feature and none poses problems while keeping your right hand on the body at all times. I'd even venture to suggest that it is more precise with right technique, keep you thumb on the wheel and against camera back all at the same time and when near focus use the pressure difference between these two contact points to move focus a smallest amount for some critical shots. Of course rangefinder needs to be that precise to begin with in order to make sensible use of it.

Kino · Feb 7, 2019

Ergonomically, the Vitessa is a very easy camera to use.

The focus wheel is very smooth and easy to use. However, if you encounter a particular unit that has grinding when you attempt to focus, you might have a detached rangefinder mirror setting in the gear train.

Gently tip the camera upside down and listen for the telltale sounds of a mirror tinkling around. My camera was exactly this way and I was sure I had destroyed the mirror, but when I disassembled the top, it was in good enough condition to simply re-glue it in place.

It takes a bit of mental effort to get used to the plunger for film advance, but it works fine when you get used to it. I do, however, get a sense that if anything breaks on this camera, it will be the plunger, so be sure to cushion its travel upward with your finger when you open the barn doors and not let it fly up hard to the mechanical stop. Once the plunger goes on one of these cameras, it cannot be used in any fashion without a replacement.

Kino · Feb 7, 2019

Ricochetrider said:
Thanks. I'lll probably call the person and ask some questions. Perhaps I'll even drive out to see it in person and take close look at it, see if I can fire it thru the various speed settings, etc. I'd like to have a vintage 35mm camera but in the end don't want to throw money at. something that isn't going to function fully.

And...

You found what?

Don't leave camera junkies hanging!

AgX · Feb 7, 2019

The model T (non-retractable barrel) in addition yields an automated DOF indocator and the changability of lenses. However the finder covers 50mm completely and has no indication for a longer focal lenght. Thus for both accessory lenses (35 and 135mm) accessory finders are needed.

Concerning faults: I inspected two T-samples. One without any marks of use on the plunger only released erratically. That may be due to the plunger mechanism, or the shutter itself. The other sample with matted plunger stem, works continuously but is a bit stiff and needs relubrication.

Deleted member 88956 · Feb 7, 2019

AgX said:
The model T (non-retractable barrel) in addition yields an automated DOF indocator and the changability of lenses. However the finder covers 50mm completely and has no indication for a longer focal lenght. Thus for both accessory lenses (35 and 135mm) accessory finders are needed.

Concerning faults: I inspected two T-samples. One without any marks of use on the plunger only released erratically. That may be due to the plunger mechanism, or the shutter itself. The other sample with brassed plunger stem, works continuously but is a bit stiff and needs relubrication.

There is one universal finder for the T, covers all available lenses. And 3 lenses were made 35,100,135

Vitessa T with finder

AgX · Feb 7, 2019

Yes, the swivel finder. But I thought it only covers 2 focal lengths, depening on the position it is swivelled on.

Deleted member 88956 · Feb 7, 2019

Forgot to mention that those seeking lenses for the Vitessa T, there is some confusion on the market as Prominent had sort of same lenses that to my knowledge will not fit the T, but are not easy to tell them apart. Got to be some marking to clear that up. I had bought mine with 35 and 135 in the package, but found that out when looking for the 100.

AgX · Feb 7, 2019

Kino said:
... be aware it uses the EV (exposure value) system whereby the meter reads out an EV value, you pull down and rotate an aperture lever latch on the bottom of the shutter and match the EV value. This ratcheting lever lightly couples the shutter speed and f-stop values together for that reading and you can then move the f-stop ring through out the applicable range for equivalent exposures. Sounds more complex than it actually is in use, but some people find the ratcheting interlock between the shutter speeds and the f-stops annoying.

You CAN vary the shutter speed and f-stop setting independent of the EV interlock, but it can be fiddly. I find that if you determine and set your f-stop FIRST, then you can often set your shutter speed and shoot, however if the last exposure was dramatically different from what you are attempting to shoot, you might have to adjust either the shutter speed or f-stop ring twice, due to the limits of the EV range of the last exposure.

The interlock between aperture/EV dial and shutter-speed dial is not uncommon at west-german cameras and yields the benefit, after setting one aperture/shutter-speed combo, of gaining several other combos without further thinking.
Of course the uninitiazed needs some trial to find out how that interlock works. It may be by pulling-up the aperture/EV dial by two tabs,and then twisting it, or by pressing it down at at side by a tab by this keeping it unlocked and stationary and then twisting the shutter-speed dial to the apt combo. etc.

With scales without EVs the aperture and shutter-speed dials will be next to each other. Thus forming combos as with dial meters.
With dials with EVs it may the same or different. At The model T the EV-scale faces the shutter-speed scale, thus the combos from above are not directly visible. One would need to turn over the camera to see the aperture scale on the opposing side. The advanced amateur of course is used to the other way of forming combos. The beginner however benefits from drectly seeing the EV scale to set the values from the light meter. And none of both has to bother with apertures as the T-model yields those automated DOF indicators.

R.Gould · Feb 7, 2019

AgX said:
Yes, the swivel finder. But I thought it only covers 2 focal lengths, depening on the position it is swivelled on.

The Voigtlander turnit 3 finder covers all 4 focal lengths, the 50, flip down the 50 and you have the 35, flip up the 50 and tur the finder and you have the 100, and it should come with a push on frame which covers the 135, it is a very useful piece of kit, I use it with my 2 Barnack Leicas,my Fed, Kiev plus of course my 2 Vitessa T's, I also use it without the 135 frame on werra's as I find it way easier than using the frame lines, as regards the Vitessa range, I have 2 barn door and 2 T's, for some reason the plungers on the T's are harder to push than the barn doors, had the t's checked by a repair person, one that I trust and nothing wrong, just the way they were made, the T's are lubricated, just stiffer due to a re design, not really a problem. I like the focus wheel on the Barn doors, but not special to the Vitessa, I have 2 Ensigns that are much older than the Vitessa's and have the same type wheel, in the same position, nothing new under the sun

choiliefan · Feb 7, 2019

The Vitessa lenses are Skoparet and Dynaret.
The 35mm and 100mm Prominent lenses are the Skoparon and the Dynaron.

Deleted member 88956 · Feb 7, 2019

choiliefan said:
The Vitessa lenses are Skoparet and Dynaret.
The 35mm and 100mm Prominent lenses are the Skoparon and the Dynaron.

I got skewered by the seller who turned out was clueless. Never checked myself and now forgot about the naming differences. Good to know when I go after the Prominent one day

choiliefan · Feb 7, 2019

If you get a Bessmatic be aware the lenses are the Skoparex and Dynarex...

Deleted member 88956 · Feb 7, 2019

choiliefan said:
If you get a Bessmatic be aware the lenses are the Skoparex and Dynarex...

So far my Bessamatic is stuck on its own lens as I have not seen anything that would make sense putting money into. Not that I've been looking all that hard though.

AgX · Feb 7, 2019

AgX said:
There are about 30 Vitessa models.

Sorry, for my arrogance.
I meanwhile realized that the barn-door Vitessa on itself and in ads and manuals was just designated "Vitessa".

Voigtlander Vitessa on Local CL

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