Want to Buy Voigtlander Perkeo w/ Color Skopar

[aconbere]

Hi all,

Hoping one of you has got one of these little guys that you're looking to sell. Looking to spend around ~$200. Shipping would be to Seattle WA. Just looking for something with a sharp lens to travel with. Open other small (edit: clarifying 120 6x6 to 6x9) folders, more easily swayed if you have some examples

 

[Dan Daniel]

Zeiss Super Ikonta IV? 6x6, coupled rangefinder, clean, overhauled. Tessar lens. Closer to $300 if you can move a bit above 2. Drop a DM if interested.

 

[retina_restoration]

The Super Ikonta would be a significantly better camera if you can afford it. The coupled rangefinder alone is worth it. (I have both the Ikonta and the Perkeo II) Both are great for their categories, but the Ikonta is much more capable. The Tessar is a superior lens compared to the Color Skopar, at least in my experience with the two cameras.
But where the Perkeo II has the advantage is its compact form and its light weight. But the lack of a rangefinder introduces a hurdle for many people.

 

[nathanbucs]

@Alex Varas hooked me up with a Perkeo I. Maybe he has a Perkeo II he can sell to you.

In my experience it was hard to find a Super Ikonta with a coated Tessar, which would be up to par with a Color Skopar. Perhaps a Mess Ikonta would be comparable?

 

[Alex Varas]

My two cents as user here:

Perkeo with Color Skopar are not the sharpest lens but the nicest overall, I can't explain why, it's just how the photo looks to my eyes.
If you wanna a sharp lens and within that budget and you don't mind zone focusing get a Nettar 517/16 or 518/16 with Novar, as far as the lens is clean and well collimated the photos will be really sharp from f/8.
If you wanna uncoupled rangefinder get a Isolette III with Apotar lens, even sharper than Novar but it's a 85mm so for it's up to your taste.
Anything with Solinar will go above your budget unless someone is selling here.

Now as seller, I have to check the box of folders I have, probably I have one/two of each but probably out of your budget by 50 euros (food and rent has to be paid).

 

[aconbere]

This is all good for thought. Here’s my line of thinking.

I have no shortage of good cameras, covering a variety of formats. Usually when Im looking for a new camera I’m trying to plug a perceived hole in the lineup.

The camera I’m looking for would ideally be easy to toss in a bag. Shoot a pretty sharp 6x6 or larger negative. Small and light for what it offers. Used mostly hand held. Mostly while on the go with my family.

Right now I have a couple of cameras that fit into that space but have various flaws I’m trying to address.

- Minolta Autocord: Sharp as a tack, light weight, but sometimes a TLR feels bulky.
- A variety of small 35mm cameras - Often excellent but the format limits enlargement.
- Welta Weltur 6x4.5 - A very capable small folder (unit focused, rangefinder, 75mm/2.8 tessar). But it’s surprisingly heavy, awkward to use, and mine has issues because I rescued it from a junk bin.

So the idea of a Perkeo is a stand in for any number of small folding medium format cameras. I’m comfortable zone focusing, so my thinking has been that I can save weight and bulk by ditching a rangefinder. And with my experience with the Weltur I’m hoping for something that’s a little more ergonomic, maybe a little more “fun” to use.

 

[Alex Varas]

Then if you have medium/big hands take a Perkeo with the case, camera ain’t much bigger with the case and the grip is better.
Also consider Perkeo I with Skopar, counter of the II is a pain to fix if camera was abused and honestly, the film flatness is better design in the Perkeo I than in the II just because of the auto winding.

 

[aconbere]

Then if you have medium/big hands take a Perkeo with the case, camera ain’t much bigger with the case and the grip is better.
Also consider Perkeo I with Skopar, counter of the II is a pain to fix if camera was abused and honestly, the film flatness is better design in the Perkeo I than in the II just because of the auto winding.

How about the Bessa 66 with Skopar? Seems comparable.

 

[GregY]

I have a Perkeo ll with a Color Skopar and love it. I think you'll be hard pressed to find one for $200. I don't have the case, but use it with the Strapateer wrist loop. It is small.... in my lineup it replaced my Plaubel Makina 670!

 

[retina_restoration]

This is all good for thought. Here’s my line of thinking.

I have no shortage of good cameras, covering a variety of formats. Usually when Im looking for a new camera I’m trying to plug a perceived hole in the lineup.

The camera I’m looking for would ideally be easy to toss in a bag. Shoot a pretty sharp 6x6 or larger negative. Small and light for what it offers. Used mostly hand held. Mostly while on the go with my family.

Right now I have a couple of cameras that fit into that space but have various flaws I’m trying to address.

- Minolta Autocord: Sharp as a tack, light weight, but sometimes a TLR feels bulky.
- A variety of small 35mm cameras - Often excellent but the format limits enlargement.
- Welta Weltur 6x4.5 - A very capable small folder (unit focused, rangefinder, 75mm/2.8 tessar). But it’s surprisingly heavy, awkward to use, and mine has issues because I rescued it from a junk bin.

So the idea of a Perkeo is a stand in for any number of small folding medium format cameras. I’m comfortable zone focusing, so my thinking has been that I can save weight and bulk by ditching a rangefinder. And with my experience with the Weltur I’m hoping for something that’s a little more ergonomic, maybe a little more “fun” to use.

Then I think you've made the best choice in selecting the Perkeo — it's very light and remarkably small for a 6x6 camera. But be sure you get one with the Color Skopar lens, not just the standard Skopar or the Vaskar - I had the Perkeo I with the Vaskar and found it severely lacking in corner sharpness, at any aperture. It was just too soft for my liking.

Here's an image made with the Perkeo II (Color Skopar): Color Skopar, Ilford Delta 400
And here's an image made with the Perkeo I (Vaskar): Perkeo I, Tri-X, at f11.5

I have a Skopar on a Bessa 6x9 and it performs really poorly at any aperture under f11, so I am inclined to advise folks to find a camera with the Color Skopar lens.

 

[Alex Varas]

+1 to last comment.

 

[aconbere]

Okay so, sounds like $200 was low for a Perkeo with Color Skopar. What would a more appropriate price be by y’all’s reconning?

 

[GregY]

Okay so, sounds like $200 was low for a Perkeo with Color Skopar. What would a more appropriate price be by y’all’s reconning?

Well...you want one in completely working condition. Blue Moon Camera had/sold this one... listed at $400.
Today i don't see a single one with a Color-Skopar on Ebay....

Voigtlander Perkeo II Camera | Blue Moon Camera

Voigtlander Perkeo II Camera. The Voigtlander Perkeo II is a folding, medium format camera that makes twelve 6x6cm negatives... Available at Blue Moon Camera

bluemooncamera.com

 

[aconbere]

Well...you want one in completely working condition. Blue Moon Camera had/sold this one... listed at $400.
Today i don't see a single one with a Color-Skopar on Ebay....

Voigtlander Perkeo II Camera | Blue Moon Camera

Voigtlander Perkeo II Camera. The Voigtlander Perkeo II is a folding, medium format camera that makes twelve 6x6cm negatives... Available at Blue Moon Camera

bluemooncamera.com

 

[Dan Daniel]

FYI, the Super Ikonta IV is 5-3/8" x 4" x 1-3/4 inch. I think the dimensional difference lies almost exclusively in the top section but I am not finding the Perkeo II dimensions online.

SI IV weighs 1 lb 9 ounces. Looks like the Perkeo weighs 1 lb 3 ounces.

But with you having said more, I am going to suggest: use the Autocord. Sure, it means a little more adjustment to its size. BUT, and this is a big one, you can trust the images. Trust the alignment, the solidity of the camera. And it doesn't have a squinty finder. Well, just where I am at now- just take the hit on carrying a camera with minimal limitations except size. I've had a wrist strap setup on an Autocord and carried in my hand all day, no biggie. And a small shoulder bag is simple enough to carry. Well, it's all trade offs so be clear on what you lose with a folder.

Baby Bessa 6x4.5 is easier to find all in all. Same size as 66 but better for sketchbook shooting because of the 16 shots. Zone focus, as is the Bessa 66.

Oh, Blue Moon prices are always at the high end. Not unfair at all, just reflecting their service, market, etc.

 

[DWThomas]

Just a couple of random comments. I acquired a Perkeo II with Color Skopar in 2008. It was from, and CLA'd by Jürgen Kreckel and has worked nicely. The indexing/interlocking of the film advance can be a bit quirky but isn't a show stopper. The compactness and results are impressive. There are some Perkeo II shots in my gallery here and more linked to the page linked above.

One note is it appears that $400 listing linked above includes an actual Voigtländer accessory rangefinder. I've not checked in recent history, but years back those suckers sold for prices that seemed as though they should include a camera! If that's still true, finding a camera without the optional RF attachment might cut $100 off the price. I had considered getting that RF, but never did. I've not found guestimate & set to be that limiting.

I will say in recent years, my goto for 6x6 has been a TLR when travel mode and conditions permit the extra bulk. (I do also have Bronica SQ-A gear which is being used less and less with my advancing age and decrepitude.) A positive "social aspect" of the TLR is that the public seems to feel less threatened by them. I've probably had more friendly, positive comments and conversations with strangers while using that than any other gear. "Oh! My dad had a camera like that!" And from a Japanese tourist I met at the base of a waterfall in the Swiss Alps "Oh -- Yashica -- very good camera!"

 

[GregY]

Just a couple of random comments. I acquired a Perkeo II with Color Skopar in 2008. It was from, and CLA'd by Jürgen Kreckel and has worked nicely. The indexing/interlocking of the film advance can be a bit quirky but isn't a show stopper. The compactness and results are impressive. There are some Perkeo II shots in my gallery here and more linked to the page linked above.

One note is it appears that $400 listing linked above includes an actual Voigtländer accessory rangefinder. I've not checked in recent history, but years back those suckers sold for prices that seemed as though they should include a camera! If that's still true, finding a camera without the optional RF attachment might cut $100 off the price. I had considered getting that RF, but never did. I've not found guestimate & set to be that limiting.

I will say in recent years, my goto for 6x6 has been a TLR when travel mode and conditions permit the extra bulk. (I do also have Bronica SQ-A gear which is being used less and less with my advancing age and decrepitude.) A positive "social aspect" of the TLR is that the public seems to feel less threatened by them. I've probably had more friendly, positive comments and conversations with strangers while using that than any other gear. "Oh! My dad had a camera like that!" And from a Japanese tourist I met at the base of a waterfall in the Swiss Alps "Oh -- Yashica -- very good camera!"

Good points DW. Prices on everything are substantially different than '08. I love my Rolleiflex and have travelled with it exclusively on trips to Europe. Where i favour the Perkeo is on trips where i'm primarily using a Leica and the Perkeo is in reserve for the occasional photo that begs for a MF negative as this scene did last summer in Sud Tirol. The Color Skopar combined with TMax or Delta 100 is a winning combo IMO. A different tool that i appreciate...but would not replace my Rolleiflex.

 

[Prest_400]

If you go for the auction/bin route, you might be able to find one well below that. However, these are mostly auctions off people that have them around and no guarantee. So have I ended with about 3 6x6's of various forms with Tessar type lenses that I have yet to test with film.
Earlier this summer I got a Perkeo I with Color Skopar, which is not the most usual combination seemingly; out of the description there was the neverready case with failing stitches and a yellow filter. Most surprisingly, the shutter seems accurate throughout the range! All below a benjamin.

- Minolta Autocord: Sharp as a tack, light weight, but sometimes a TLR feels bulky.
- A variety of small 35mm cameras - Often excellent but the format limits enlargement.
- Welta Weltur 6x4.5 - A very capable small folder (unit focused, rangefinder, 75mm/2.8 tessar). But it’s surprisingly heavy, awkward to use, and mine has issues because I rescued it from a junk bin.

I second the use of the Autocord, but having been a Super Ikonta user, really appreciate the coupled RF in the IV. And the compactness means that I can carry it in a cargo shorts pocket even. Then, as an advantage you can carry multiple cameras. I ended up buying this Super Ikonta IV to shoot alongside my GW690 and just just in case not ending with a single camera that could fail in a big trip.

 

[nathanbucs]

A Super Ikonta III would be nice also. The meters on the IV are not reliable anymore.

 

[GregY]

Photo of Perkeo & Super Ikonta....for size comparison.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Photo of Perkeo & Super Ikonta....for size comparison.

The Super Ikonta III and IV are smaller than the one shown in your photo. Much closer to the Perkeos.

The III and IV are basically the same camera. The openings for the meter are not in the top cover, that's the difference. And the weight of the meter system. Most IIIs will have a Novar (??) but some IIIs have a Tessar. Best combo in my opinion, III without the meter clutter and the Tessar.