Voigtlander Perkeo II: CLA or Sell?

mtnbkr · Mar 22, 2022

I recently picked up a cosmetically perfect Perkeo II with the Synchro-Rapid shutter, Color-Skopar lens, and even an intact leather carrying case for cheap. Externally it looks virtually new and the bellows appear to be light tight. Unfortunately, the shutter is very slow on the lower speeds (seems close to correct on 1/100 and above), there is some dust in the lens, and the frame counter mechanism isn't working right (at least as far as I can tell by manually moving the rollers).

I'm primarily a 35mm shooter. My only MF activity is putting the odd roll through my Kodak Brownie Hawkeye. I'm not sure if I want to pick up MF and I'm also unsure if I want to do so via a scale-focus camera. I could use a nudge in either direction.

Also, if I were to get this fixed, who is a good choice? I've reached out to certo6.com, but haven't heard anything yet. Are there any other options?

Chris

Don_ih · Mar 22, 2022

It sounds like you probably won't use it. You likely can't sell it for much - you won't get back the money you spend on getting it fixed, if you get it fixed and then don't use it. I'd say sell it.

mtnbkr · Mar 22, 2022

Don Heisz said:
It sounds like you probably won't use it. You likely can't sell it for much - you won't get back the money you spend on getting it fixed, if you get it fixed and then don't use it. I'd say sell it.

If I fix it, I will use it. I'm stubborn that way.

I think it's the "normal" lens and scale focusing that is giving me pause. I can see it being a bit fiddly to get good images, but that may be fear of the unknown. My only other scale-focus experience is with a 15mm Voigtlander lens that has so much DOF it's nearly impossible not to get an in-focus image.

Chris

Dan Daniel · Mar 22, 2022

Why did you pick it up?

Have you shot medium format before? You mention a Hawkeye, but the results from the Perkeo will be in a different league because of the better lens. If you want to see what it is about medium format that gets people using it, the Perkeo is a great opportunity now that you have it. Most likely the higher speeds are usable so run a roll through it and see what you think. If it appeals to you after a roll or two, get it cleaned up. If good quality medium format doesn't do much for you sell it on.

Steve Goldstein · Mar 22, 2022

The Perkeo II is a nice little camera, great for carrying when weight and space are at a premium. The frame counter only works when you flip the lever (you can get a manual at butkus.org) so it can appear not to be working. DISCLAIMER: I've never tried checking the film counter without loading film - while I believe it may work with the back open and the lever flipped, I don't know and don't wish to try.

My Perkeo II came from Jurgen (certo6) and he advertised it as not having a working film counter, but in fact it's fine. Get the shutter CLA'd and learn how to use zone focusing, it's really not that hard as long as you don't insist on shooting wide open. Dan Daniel (previous poster) may be able to do it for you at a reasonable price - you'd have to ask him.

Down Under · Mar 22, 2022

This is an easy one to resolve. Do you want to use it, or do you just want to sell it?

I get a bit weary of buyers who just pick up a camera to flip it, usually at a profit, but then dither, and want us to decide for them what to do. Respectfully, you have to decide why you bought the camera, and guide yourself according as to your decision as to what to do with it.

I have a Perkeo I, the earlier model without the exposure counter and no double exposure prevention. It's a good little shooter, and easily fits into a pocket when I go bush walking, even when I take along the usual accessories, a lens hood, a yellow-green filter, an exposure meter, and a few rolls of film. It's not a DSLR, but it does good work for what it is.

Overall the Voigtlander Perkeo was a fine little 120 folder in its day when these cameras were what most people bought and used - ditto Zeiss Netters, Agfas, Anscos and at least a dozen other brands. However, it's an early 1950s camera with all the usual limitations of a folder. If yours has serious mechanical problems, and you didn't pay too much for it, then let it go, for a fair price. If it works, with a little care in using it, you will be amazed at the quality of the images you can get out of it.

It's really that simple.

mtnbkr · Mar 22, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
Why did you pick it up?

It was cheap ($45) and local. I assumed it would need shutter service and maybe even patching in the bellows area. The former is certainly true, but the latter seems unnecessary. The film-counter/anti-DE issue was unexpected given the overall condition.

I liked the idea of a pocketable MF camera. I like to combine photography withe my other activities, making small cameras like this attractive.

Dan Daniel said:
Have you shot medium format before? You mention a Hawkeye, but the results from the Perkeo will be in a different league because of the better lens. If you want to see what it is about medium format that gets people using it, the Perkeo is a great opportunity now that you have it. Most likely the higher speeds are usable so run a roll through it and see what you think. If it appeals to you after a roll or two, get it cleaned up. If good quality medium format doesn't do much for you sell it on.

Aside from the Hawkeye, no, I haven't. I liked the results I got from the Hawkeye and was looking for a step up in quality, making the Perkeo seem like a good choice. But, the reality of a CLA and possibly other work is giving me pause. Good point on just trying it out. I might do that since I have a roll of 120 B&W film in the fridge.

Chris

mtnbkr · Mar 22, 2022

ozmoose said:
This is an easy one to resolve. Do you want to use it, or do you just want to sell it?

I do want to use it, but I don't want to invest real money into it only to find out the results are "meh".

ozmoose said:
I get a bit weary of buyers who just pick up a camera to flip it, usually at a profit, but then dither, and want us to decide for them what to do. Respectfully, you have to decide why you bought the camera, and guide yourself according as to your decision as to what to do with it.

I have a Perkeo I, the earlier model without the exposure counter and no double exposure prevention. It's a good little shooter, and easily fits into a pocket when I go bush walking, even when I take along the usual accessories, a lens hood, a yellow-green filter, an exposure meter, and a few rolls of film. It's not a DSLR, but it does good work for what it is.

Overall the Voigtlander Perkeo was a fine little 120 folder in its day when these cameras were what most people bought and used - ditto Zeiss Netters, Agfas, Anscos and at least a dozen other brands. However, it's an early 1950s camera with all the usual limitations of a folder. If yours has serious mechanical problems, and you didn't pay too much for it, then let it go, for a fair price. If it works, with a little care in using it, you will be amazed at the quality of the images you can get out of it.

It's really that simple.

The plan was to use it and my "use case" is similar to yours (drop in a pocket when going out to do "other things"). I have a thing for older cameras and am not put off by their quirks.

Chris

mtnbkr · Mar 22, 2022

Steve Goldstein said:
The Perkeo II is a nice little camera, great for carrying when weight and space are at a premium. The frame counter only works when you flip the lever (you can get a manual at butkus.org) so it can appear not to be working. DISCLAIMER: I've never tried checking the film counter without loading film - while I believe it may work with the back open and the lever flipped, I don't know and don't wish to try.

I have the manual. The lever needs to be flipped to the left for the frame-counter/anti-DE mechanism to work. I don't *need* either, but with the lever flipped to the right, the shutter button doesn't work at all (locked out), but that at least gets me around any issues with the frame counter.

Chris

Don_ih · Mar 22, 2022

mtnbkr said:
I can see it being a bit fiddly to get good images

Cameras such as this were made specifically for taking pictures of people and things (like cars) at about 10 feet away outside in daylight. That's the kind of photo it does "best" - but "best" can be redefined at any point. What they considered "best" was "reasonably sharp and in-focus".

Dan Fromm · Mar 22, 2022

Hmm. I have one. It is a joy to use but I never got a satisfactorily sharp image with it. I grumbled about it to my friend and neighbor Charlie Barringer (google him, he's a co-author of the Zeiss Ikon Compendium). He had one too, had the same difficulties with it. I grumbled about it to my friend Eric Beltrando (dioptrique.info). He remarked that the Color Skopar isn't a particularly good Tessar clone.

The Perkeo II is quite complex. I'm not sure who's up to repairing them.

I keep mine to maintain negative bragging rights and because its cute. Also because sharpness is somewhat overrated. But if I ever blunder into another one and find myself owning it, I'll sell it "as is, where is, no returns, bid accordingly" to get out from under the mistake.

mtnbkr · Mar 23, 2022

I ran a roll of film through the camera yesterday. All was good in terms of the Anti-DE mechanism until about half roll when it failed to lock at the next frame and I advanced past that frame and the next before I realized it wasn't catching. So I lost a few frames with that issue. I did discover if I flip the Anti-DE lever to the left, it exposes a tiny tab that I can press against with my thumb to release the shutter button. It's a tad awkward, but it'll allow me to use the camera even with the wonky anti-DE mechanism.

I used the 1/100 and 1/250 shutter speeds and tried to keep my aperture in the 8-16 range to help with DOF and scale focusing. If the exposures and sharpness come out ok, I'll consider having the little camera CLA'd. It's a neat little camera and I love how light and quiet it is.

Chris

brancaleone · Mar 23, 2022

Hi,
I have a Perkeo I and quite like the pictures taken at mid aperture range, say f5.6-11. The color skopar lens should be even better. Also, it is really tiny and easy to carry.
Scale focussing is intimidating, but I solved it buying an external rangefinder (a Watameter in my case). This would be my advice to improve focusing, you can find vintage rangefinders for cheap (at least here in Europe) that are often nice kind of objects.
This is my camerea fitted with the external RF

gone · Mar 23, 2022

I'd give the shutter a flush w/ alcohol or lighter fluid, then exercise it. It will probably straighten up w/ use. For $45, put some film in it and see if you like it. They're cool cameras. I prefer the Heliars on the Bessa 66 cameras, but those will be priced more than 10 times what you paid. The Scopars are sharp lenses, even the bottom line Voigtar lensess are sharp stopped down.

bernard_L · Mar 23, 2022

My 2¢. I have a Perkeo (model I, but with Skopar lens). Also have an accessory rangefinder. My point is: the accessory rangefinder may be seen as awkward, adding bulk and complexity to the compact Skopar body.
BUT. Depending on the kind of photos you take, you need the rangefinder for only a small fraction of your pictures, I'd say those below 6ft (2m) range. The rest of the time my rangefinder lives in the pocket of my jacket.
About your shutter. Load some 400-Iso film: 400tX, HP5, TMY, Delta-400. No point in using 100-Iso film in MF. Use shutter speeds 100 or above. Anyway, slower than 100, if you really want to evaluate the potential of the optics, you should use a tripod. Dev, look at results.

DWThomas · Mar 23, 2022

This link will take you to some examples of what my Perkeo II has done for me, there are links in the text at the top to get to more examples. I admit leaning toward a TLR (my Yashica Mat 124g) as my goto camera for medium format film, and I have a Bronica SQ-A with an assortment of lenses and finders for "really serious" work, but the Perkeo II gives a good account of itself, and is definitely the winner for compactness. I sometimes also carry it as a backup for the 'more serious' cameras if I'm traveling.

There are some shots scattered in my galleries here, also.
This handheld available light shot taken in the Auburn Cord Duesenberg Museum (Auburn, Indiana) illustrates some of its best work for me.

(1932 Duesenberg J-476 on 400TX)

I suppose one should consider a Perkeo II is about 70 years old these days, but hey! I bought mine CLA'd and checked out from Certo Six (Jurgen Kreckel) circa 2008.

4season · Mar 24, 2022

mtnbkr said:
I recently picked up a cosmetically perfect Perkeo II with the Synchro-Rapid shutter, Color-Skopar lens, and even an intact leather carrying case for cheap. Externally it looks virtually new and the bellows appear to be light tight. Unfortunately, the shutter is very slow on the lower speeds (seems close to correct on 1/100 and above), there is some dust in the lens, and the frame counter mechanism isn't working right (at least as far as I can tell by manually moving the rollers).

I'd figure on the total price of that camera being closer to $150 once service and postage is considered, but if you're okay with that, have fun!

For most sunny outdoor photos, you can pretty much just leave aperture at f/8 or f/11, and focus set at some middling distance. And in fact, many scale focus cameras have markings on the aperture and distance scales for exactly that purpose.

Mosandy44 · Jul 29, 2022

Dan Fromm said:
Hmm. I have one. It is a joy to use but I never got a satisfactorily sharp image with it. I grumbled about it to my friend and neighbor Charlie Barringer (google him, he's a co-author of the Zeiss Ikon Compendium). He had one too, had the same difficulties with it. I grumbled about it to my friend Eric Beltrando (dioptrique.info). He remarked that the Color Skopar isn't a particularly good Tessar clone.

The Perkeo II is quite complex. I'm not sure who's up to repairing them.

I keep mine to maintain negative bragging rights and because its cute. Also because sharpness is somewhat overrated. But if I ever blunder into another one and find myself owning it, I'll sell it "as is, where is, no returns, bid accordingly" to get out from under the mistake.

I just had my Perkeo IIIE CLA’d by Jürgen Kreckel. It’s spot on. I love my TLRs but you got to love a camera that slips into your pocket.

Voigtlander Perkeo II: CLA or Sell?

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