Voigtlander Bessa ll 6x4.5 mask

studiocarter · Oct 8, 2016

These things are very hard to find, 6x4.5 masks, even though there are many cameras with the two ruby Windows. Would, could someone make new masks for the different cameras using a 3D printer?
Also, please make masks for 122 cameras etc to use currently available film. That would be nice. A mask is on that big auction site now. A real one. Would it fit into a no number Bessa. 0? My Bessa has no number.

paul ron · Oct 10, 2016

ive made masks from soada can aluminum. careful cutting, then burnish all edges.

rjbuzzclick · Oct 10, 2016

I have one of the 6x4.5 masks that came with a Bessa I. It also fits my two other Bessas from 1937 and 1947. I'd make one as paul ron suggested above, they're not terribly complicated.

studiocarter · Oct 10, 2016

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Ma...051111?hash=item1eb940cee7:g:yj4AAOSwJb9Wsibx
So, this would fit into a Bessa?

rjbuzzclick · Oct 13, 2016

studiocarter said:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Ma...051111?hash=item1eb940cee7:g:yj4AAOSwJb9Wsibx
So, this would fit into a Bessa?

I don't have mine in front of me right now, but it looks the same. The two long "hooks" at each end will clip under the film rollers on each side of the film gate. The two raised triangle bits engage with the back door so when you open the red window cover, both windows will open. When you advance the film, you put the backing paper frame number in the first window for frame 1, then advance it to the second window for frame 2.

Not that you asked my opinion, but I'll offer it. $105 seems like a lot of money to shoot 6x4.5 in a 6x9 camera. On top of that you'd be stuck with a longer than normal focal length lens for the smaller format (105mm vs. 75mm). One of the advantages of 6x4.5 is a smaller camera. I would bet that you could find a 6x4.5 folder for less money. I've only used my 6x4.5 mask once and wasn't overly impressed. There's a lot of wonderful imperfections at the edges of the 6x9 frame on older Voigtlander folders that get cropped out when using the smaller format.

rjbuzzclick · Oct 15, 2016

Just an addendum, I happened to see a Bessa II the other day and it only had one red window on the back door, which means that the particular camera I saw would not work with the 6x4.5 mask. I don't know if the others are like that or not, but just thought I'd mention it.

Captain Mainwaring · May 28, 2021

It seems to be my lot to dig up ancient conversations here; my apologies. It so happens that I am in search of one of these, too. Not exactly a DIY person (and that's a huge understatement), but, perhaps, some lucky owner of said mask might deign to do a 3D scan that could then be made available to the general public free of charge, and everyone could just download the file, take it to their nearest 3D printing shop, and hey presto? Could do with one for my Weltax, too, come to think of it…

Dan Daniel · May 28, 2021

Captain Mainwaring said:
do a 3D scan that could then be made available to the general public free of charge, and everyone could just download the file, take it to their nearest 3D printing shop, and hey presto?

Most 3-d printers will be working at too thick of a layer to make this effective.

What you want is a 2-d file to be cut from thin metal with a fiber laser cutter. A little table top pressing could be done to finish off the notches and bends and such.

Or have them etched. I had a brief conversation with Insight Designs about this. This firm does high precision etching of a variety of sheet metal materials. This includes etching different thicknesses, fold lines, etc. They also have developed a super-black coating for precision optics. Problem is that a 12x12 inch sheet with super-black finish runs in the $500 area (I assume the black coating is for military or scientific optical systems that need 99.99% absorption). For film cameras, getting brass and rattle can painting it would work ok. Or anodizing aluminum? Still probably $100 a sheet or so? Anyway, if you drew up patterns for a few different cameras and did a few sheets, not just one, you'd probably corner the market on masks like this for the next decade.

https://www.etchnow.com/

Captain Mainwaring · May 28, 2021

Dan Daniel said:
Most 3-d printers will be working at too thick of a layer to make this effective.

What you want is a 2-d file to be cut from thin metal with a fiber laser cutter. A little table top pressing could be done to finish off the notches and bends and such.

Or have them etched. I had a brief conversation with Insight Designs about this. This firm does high precision etching of a variety of sheet metal materials. This includes etching different thicknesses, fold lines, etc. They also have developed a super-black coating for precision optics. Problem is that a 12x12 inch sheet with super-black finish runs in the $500 area (I assume the black coating is for military or scientific optical systems that need 99.99% absorption). For film cameras, getting brass and rattle can painting it would work ok. Or anodizing aluminum? Still probably $100 a sheet or so? Anyway, if you drew up patterns for a few different cameras and did a few sheets, not just one, you'd probably corner the market on masks like this for the next decade.

https://www.etchnow.com/

Wasn't aware of the thickness issues. I need to do a better study. Not seeking to corner the market or do anything whatsoever with the market, really. I just wanted one for myself, and in case of a hypothetical 3D model it could serve more people… weren't some printers capable of doing 1/4 millimeter sheets? I need to do more research as always… Etching, eh? I'll see if anyone does it locally. Thanks for the input!

Patrick Robert James · May 28, 2021

I have one laying around here somewhere from a Bessa RF (original pre war one). Make me an offer I can't refuse...

Bill Burk · May 28, 2021

They are asking about the cost of a “fair” Bessa II camera. But I have one red window how am I supposed to advance? Can’t imagine the Bessa II camera model included a 645 insert in its original design. Unless it came with a different back?

gone · May 28, 2021

I've owned the Bessa II and Bessa RF cameras, and never cared for shooting the RF w/ the mask in it. These are sorta big cameras w/ squinty viewfinders, and it seemed awkward to be shooting them and ending up w/ a neg that was much smaller than what the camera was capable of. My personal opinion is that you can buy some very small and light 6x4.5 and 6x6 cameras that do a much better job.

Captain Mainwaring · May 28, 2021

momus said:
I've owned the Bessa II and Bessa RF cameras, and never cared for shooting the RF w/ the mask in it. These are sorta big cameras w/ squinty viewfinders, and it seemed awkward to be shooting them and ending up w/ a neg that was much smaller than what the camera was capable of. My personal opinion is that you can buy some very small and light 6x4.5 and 6x6 cameras that do a much better job.

Yeah, I am beginning to think along the same lines. Got my eye on a Super Ikonta 531A. There's also the option of getting a 6x4.5-capable back for my Mamiya Press (as a matter of fact, I'm wondering if I can just have a 6x4.5 rectangle laser-cut in the dark slide, since this particular back does have the red window for 6x4.5) or finding/making a jugaad version of a 6x4.5 mask for the Weltax (the most compact of them all).

I wish I was good with my hands or knew someone locally I could outsource such things to, really *le big sigh.*

darinwc · May 30, 2021

I have the Bessa I and II. Never thought to check the back but indeed the Bessa II only has one red window.

My bessa I has the dual windows for using the optional mask, and I have the mask.
I have used it once. On the plus side, you get 16 exposures for your medium format film. Also, the 105mm lens on the Bessa becomes a medium-telephoto that gives you a bit more reach than a 65-75mm lens on a dedicated 6/45 camera. The Bessa I does have a viewfinder that switched between 6x9 and 6x4, with a close focus setting as well.
But note that it is hard to nail the focus on a scale-focus camera like the Bessa I, so dont expect to get bokeh-licious portraits without wasing a lot of film.

.

grat · May 30, 2021

I have a rangefinder accessory I put in the shoe on my Bessa I. Dramatically increases focus accuracy.

JPD · May 31, 2021

darinwc said:
But note that it is hard to nail the focus on a scale-focus camera like the Bessa I, so dont expect to get bokeh-licious portraits without wasing a lot of film.

grat said:
I have a rangefinder accessory I put in the shoe on my Bessa I. Dramatically increases focus accuracy.

I have the Voigtländer accessory rangefinder. I sold my Bessa I, but I use the rangefinder with my Ercona II 6x9 with Tessar and it really helps. I also have the Voigtländer E-Bessa (Or RF-Bessa) with Heliar, but it has a built-in rangefinder and is fun to use as larger apertures for the "3D pop" and out of focus backgrounds.

Jeremy Mudd · Jun 3, 2021

darinwc said:
I have the Bessa I and II. Never thought to check the back but indeed the Bessa II only has one red window.

My bessa I has the dual windows for using the optional mask, and I have the mask.
I have used it once. On the plus side, you get 16 exposures for your medium format film. Also, the 105mm lens on the Bessa becomes a medium-telephoto that gives you a bit more reach than a 65-75mm lens on a dedicated 6/45 camera. The Bessa I does have a viewfinder that switched between 6x9 and 6x4, with a close focus setting as well.
But note that it is hard to nail the focus on a scale-focus camera like the Bessa I, so dont expect to get bokeh-licious portraits without wasing a lot of film.

.

I've never used that viewfinder switch on my Bessa 1 because the viewfinder is so difficult to see thru (for me). I bought a separate viewfinder for the hotshoe instead and have been using that ever since. I was lucky enough to also receive the 6x45 mask with mine but have no intent on selling it so that the camera remains complete. My Bessa 1 is a pristine example that I purchased from a coworker years back - it belong to his father. also had the lens hood - all of that was in wooden cigar box with several rolls of 1969 Verichrome.

Jeremy

darinwc · Jun 10, 2021

Cleaning the viewfinder (in and out) does wonders for the Bessa I viewfinder.

Jeremy Mudd · Jun 10, 2021

Does cleaning it make it larger? That's really my issue with it. It's so tiny.

Jeremy

grat · Jun 10, 2021

In a way-- you squint less, so it seems larger.

I can attest to the remarkable change from a dingy, dim viewfinder to a suddenly quite useful one. Pretty easy to clean, as well.

Voigtlander Bessa ll 6x4.5 mask

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