Voigtlander Bergheil 9x12 Shift Control Not Moving

Renato Tonelli · May 26, 2021

I can't figure out how to get the Lateral Shift to work on a new to me Voigtlander Bergheil 9x12 Camera.

As best as I can tell, the top left knurled knob is supposed to control the the Lateral Shift; it does not turn. I thought that it might be in locked position via the lever that sits between the pull-out eyelets. Changing its position makes no difference.

I don't want to force the knob with a plier for fear of damaging it. Any ideas?

BTW: The Rise and Fall works smoothly.
I posted the same query on the LFPF.
Thanks in advance.

Donald Qualls · May 27, 2021

Does the lower knob (collar) turn? It looks like it could be either rise or a lock for the upper knob.

Alternatively (hard to be confident on this due to the small image) is the little nub on the front edge of the bed movable, either pushing toward the film plane or "down" (for a vertical-format camera orientation) to unlock the shift?

Renato Tonelli · May 27, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Does the lower knob (collar) turn? It looks like it could be either rise or a lock for the upper knob.

Alternatively (hard to be confident on this due to the small image) is the little nub on the front edge of the bed movable, either pushing toward the film plane or "down" (for a vertical-format camera orientation) to unlock the shift?

I don't have the camera in front of me right now (I'm at work); thank you for your suggestions - I will look into them when I get home and report back.
The lower, and larger, knob does turn and works for Rise and Fall.

Kino · May 27, 2021

If you read German...
https://cameramanuals.org/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_bergheil.pdf

Renato Tonelli · May 27, 2021

Kino said:
If you read German...
https://cameramanuals.org/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_bergheil.pdf

I don't

Kino · May 27, 2021

Renato Tonelli said:
I don't

Me neither! HELP!

Donald Qualls · May 27, 2021

Not sure how applicable the linked manual is, that's a 6.5x9 version (might be the same, might not).

Ron (Netherlands) · May 27, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Not sure how applicable the linked manual is, that's a 6.5x9 version (might be the same, might not).

I read German, so here a little explanation:
The first page of the manual tells us that it is written for both the 6,5x9 cm version and the 9x12 cm version.
Further the manual (from which it appears that some pages are missing) indicates on page 10, the so-called "Objectivverschiebung", that the big knob ("Triebknopf") nr. 5 (see picture nr 3 on page 5) is for vertical shift, and the little knob nr. 4 is for horizontal shift. Further it mentions how much mm the shift actually is with both these models; nothing further. There is no locking system what so-ever mentioned.

Kino · May 27, 2021

Ron (Netherlands) said:
I read German, so here a little explanation:
The first page of the manual tells us that it is written for both the 6,5x9 cm version and the 9x12 cm version.
Further the manual (from which it appears that some pages are missing) indicates on page 10, the so-called "Objectivverschiebung", that the big knob ("Triebknopf") nr. 5 (see picture nr 3 on page 5) is for vertical shift, and the little knob nr. 4 is for horizontal shift. Further it mentions how much mm the shift actually is with both these models; nothing further. There is no locking system what so-ever mentioned.

Thank you!

Kino · May 27, 2021

Renato Tonelli said:
I can't figure out how to get the Lateral Shift to work on a new to me Voigtlander Bergheil 9x12 Camera.

As best as I can tell, the top left knurled knob is supposed to control the the Lateral Shift; it does not turn. I thought that it might be in locked position via the lever that sits between the pull-out eyelets. Changing its position makes no difference.

I don't want to force the knob with a plier for fear of damaging it. Any ideas?

BTW: The Rise and Fall works smoothly.
I posted the same query on the LFPF.
Thanks in advance.

Try dropping a few drops of isopropyl alcohol down in between the gaps of the knobs to see if it is frozen grease.

Renato Tonelli · May 27, 2021

Ron (Netherlands) said:
I read German, so here a little explanation:
The first page of the manual tells us that it is written for both the 6,5x9 cm version and the 9x12 cm version.
Further the manual (from which it appears that some pages are missing) indicates on page 10, the so-called "Objectivverschiebung", that the big knob ("Triebknopf") nr. 5 (see picture nr 3 on page 5) is for vertical shift, and the little knob nr. 4 is for horizontal shift. Further it mentions how much mm the shift actually is with both these models; nothing further. There is no locking system what so-ever mentioned.

Thank you Ron.
This confirms that the mechanism for Rise and Fall, the smaller top top knob is frozen/stuck.

Renato Tonelli · May 27, 2021

Kino said:
Try dropping a few drops of isopropyl alcohol down in between the gaps of the knobs to see if it is frozen grease.

I suspect that either the knob mechanism or the base where it shifts is frozen. Wish me luck

Renato Tonelli · May 28, 2021

Still stuck - I am going to see if it's possible to take the mechanism apart without breaking it...

Renato Tonelli · Jun 3, 2021

Update:

Took it ti the Camera Doctor in NYC today. His diagnosis is that the worm gear is gummed up, needs cleaning and re-lube. He showed me how it is accessible, which was not obvious to me. It will take him about one hour to do the job.

Kino · Jun 3, 2021

Renato Tonelli said:
Update:

Took it ti the Camera Doctor in NYC today. His diagnosis is that the worm gear is gummed up, needs cleaning and re-lube. He showed me how it is accessible, which was not obvious to me. It will take him about one hour to do the job.

Well, at least it's an easy fix. Hope it doesn't cost too much!

Donald Qualls · Jun 4, 2021

Renato Tonelli said:
Update:

Took it ti the Camera Doctor in NYC today. His diagnosis is that the worm gear is gummed up, needs cleaning and re-lube. He showed me how it is accessible, which was not obvious to me. It will take him about one hour to do the job.

Excellent! Good to see another one of these that only needs minor work. They built them well back in the last '20s.

Renato Tonelli · Jun 4, 2021

He told me he would be kind as far as labor cost; I have gone there in the past for other repairs/modifications. It's also worth it to me because the camera is in otherwise very good condition and the lens looks fantastic for its age.
Until a few days ago, I was unaware that he did work on very, very old cameras; or maybe I just didn't think of it or made the connection.

As far as built-quality goes: I completely agree with Donald; it is remarkable that an 80-90 year old camera is still functioning and capable of producing a good quality negative.

Matthew K · Jun 4, 2021

I realize there are some caveats to the possible answer, but if you don't mind me asking, how much was the work Renato? I have an Avus that needs some work done to it, and wonder what ballpark I might be in for that.

Renato Tonelli · Jun 4, 2021

Matthew K said:
I realize there are some caveats to the possible answer, but if you don't mind me asking, how much was the work Renato? I have an Avus that needs some work done to it, and wonder what ballpark I might be in for that.

About $70. I don’t remember the precise amount because there was some back and forth as he tried to figure out how long it might take (finally locating the points); I have have the paperwork in my office if you need a more precise figure. I think he charges $80. or so per hour.

Matthew K · Jun 4, 2021

No that gives me a decent idea. Thanks for sharing

Voigtlander Bergheil 9x12 Shift Control Not Moving

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency