Voigtländer Perkeo I focus w/ watameter

kingbuzzie · May 27, 2018

So I've gotten my first folder, refurbished by certo6. It is a damn nice looking camera I must say. I tried some test shots with my watameter, which I calibrated at infinity. The test was a sunny day, I think I had it stopped down to f8. Does it look like the focus isn't quite right in the center or my focus also seems to be off a bit? Again, I'm coming over from using vintage slrs, so something like a folder is entirely new to me (and I'm just a hobbyist).

In the first photo I think I focused on the tricycle seat and In the second photo, I had the watameter lined up dead on with the tires on that tire planter. I'm using superpan 200 developed with tmax liquid. Thanks for any input.

Dan Fromm · May 27, 2018

Which lens does your Perkeo I have? I ask because my Perkeo II's Color Skopar isn't the sharpest Tessar clone on the block. My late friend Charlie Barringer (google him) had a Perkeo II with Color Skopar II, his was also poor. And my friend Eric Beltrando (visit his site dioptrique.info) says that Color Skopars aren't very good. Sharpness isn't everything, and the cameras are joys to use.

For luck and to make sure, check y'r Watameter against a tape measure at several not-too-far distances.

ransel · May 27, 2018

KB, I have that camera - love it BTW. It's hard to tell in a scanned and posted image, but from what I can see, it looks like focus is "close". I don't have a rangefinder, so when I got my Perkeo I, before I shot any film thru it I put it on a tripod, opened the back and held a ground-glass across the film gate, and focused on an object at several measured distances on the lens focus scale, just to make sure that when I estimate the distance of 6 ft while out shooting, I should be close. If I remember, my lens scale was off slightly, so I ended up loosening the small screws and turning the scale ever so slightly and retesting. I am happy with it now.
These are all estimated without a rangefinder. I don't remember what f/stop I was using - each was probably a different f/stop though.

DWThomas · May 27, 2018

At the scale I can see on my screen I think those shots look pretty close. I have a Perkeo II with Color Skopar and I think it's pretty sharp. I do wonder if in these questions about rangefinders and focus scales there may be some inevitable compromises as a result of front element focusing. As you get really close in, the mounting of the rangefinder reference plane relative to the film plane might be an issue too -- never really thought much about that.

All that said, I admit though I own a couple of those accessory rangefinders, I virtually never use them, relying instead on "guesstimate and set" and less gear and fiddling.

R.Gould · May 27, 2018

I also use a Pwrkep, mine has the Vasker lens, and I use a watameter, but mainly for close ups, I find the lenses performs best at 11, yours look pretty good to me, certainly very close,
Richard

darinwc · May 27, 2018

The focus is definitely off.
It is hard to tell in the bicycle picture. But the handle furthest away is in better focus.
It is easier to tell in the tire picture. Look closely at the grass the grass behind the tire. You can clearly see a plane where i it is in better focus.

What Dan Fromm said was correct. The distance settings on the camera are set from the lens to the subject, not the film plane to the subject. But the focus error in those images are much greater than that

You need to check your watameter for close focussing as well as infinity. And you also need to verify the settings on the camera.

This is where it gets a little diy because you need to make a focus screen for the perkeo. Vellum works very well cut to size and taped to the focus rails. Or A piece of clear acrylic with Scotch tape over the front (the frosted kind). Or I have an actual focus screen from a medium format slr. Either way, our the camera on a tripod, check that the distances are correct for the closest distance and for infinity. Use a tape measure.

My guess is that the camera is correct and the watameter is not.

After you check the camera, check the watameter. But for the close distance, make sure and add a few inches for the lengths of the camera.

Then make sure they are all working together.

Facepalm check: are they both marked in feet?

darinwc · May 27, 2018

The color skopar is a very sharp lens.
Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise.
However many of these cameras suffer when focussing close because they focus by moving the front cell only. This puts the lens out of it's nominal configuration.
When focussing about 10ft or closer, make sure to stop the lens down to at least f8.

kingbuzzie · May 27, 2018

Dan Fromm said:
Which lens does your Perkeo I have? I ask because my Perkeo II's Color Skopar isn't the sharpest Tessar clone on the block. My late friend Charlie Barringer (google him) had a Perkeo II with Color Skopar II, his was also poor. And my friend Eric Beltrando (visit his site dioptrique.info) says that Color Skopars aren't very good. Sharpness isn't everything, and the cameras are joys to use.

For luck and to make sure, check y'r Watameter against a tape measure at several not-too-far distances.

It is the color skopar

kingbuzzie · May 27, 2018

DWThomas said:
At the scale I can see on my screen I think those shots look pretty close. I have a Perkeo II with Color Skopar and I think it's pretty sharp. I do wonder if in these questions about rangefinders and focus scales there may be some inevitable compromises as a result of front element focusing. As you get really close in, the mounting of the rangefinder reference plane relative to the film plane might be an issue too -- never really thought much about that.

All that said, I admit though I own a couple of those accessory rangefinders, I virtually never use them, relying instead on "guesstimate and set" and less gear and fiddling.

I'm lousy with guessing, so I was hoping that I would learn how to guess better from using the watameter for a while. It's definitely more convenient without, plus then the camera fits in to the never ready case.

ransel · May 27, 2018

My Perkeo I has the Vaskar. I didn't think that version ever came with the Skopar...but I may be wrong.

Chrismat · May 27, 2018

This is really strange. I owned a Perkeo II with a Color-Skopar and it was very sharp.

pbromaghin · May 27, 2018

Along with checking the watameter against a tape measure, I would check the camera.

kingbuzzie · May 27, 2018

pbromaghin said:
Along with checking the watameter against a tape measure, I would check the camera.

I guess I'll break out the tape measure and tripod. Again two more. On the first I read the watameter for the child's slide and it seems to be focused behind it and the second I read the range for the table and chairs in the center. I was more concerned that I was getting soft focus in the middle and not the sides, but it looks more like just the focus is off.

kingbuzzie · May 28, 2018

Well I calibrated the watameter again, this time by the moon in the night sky. And I'll be be, it was off. This I realized I didn't re-calibrate it after opening up the front to clean the mirror and lenses. Measuring it from 33 inches to 20 feet seemed pretty accurate, although once you hit 20' + it's not terribly precise. I don't have anything on me right now to make a makeshift ground glass to test the lens.

AgX · May 28, 2018

darinwc said:
However many of these cameras suffer when focussing close because they focus by moving the front cell only. This puts the lens out of it's nominal configuration.
When focussing about 10ft or closer, make sure to stop the lens down to at least f8.

This is both benefit and disadvantage of the Tessar design.
(But near focusing by moving the complete lens and not only the front element will sooner or later also reach its limits in image quality.)

AgX · May 28, 2018

By the way, for those who, like me, find that Watameter or Wata sounds japanese: it is a brand of Edmund Wateler, a german firm.

darinwc · May 28, 2018

Looking forward to see how the next roll goes.

kingbuzzie · May 28, 2018

Ok this time I used measuring tape.

1st picture 5.6 measuring tape from inner edge of chalkboard

2nd f8 watameter on tricycle seat. No measuring tape

3rd f5.6 measuring tape to the little boy's head. His head looks pretty soft to me (focuswise, not his real noggin)

4th is the seat again with watameter to seat. No measuring tape. I didn't double check with both the watameter and measuring tape outside. I'm not sure why I didn't do that...

tbransco · May 28, 2018

Chrismat said:
This is really strange. I owned a Perkeo II with a Color-Skopar and it was very sharp.

I'm now the happy owner of the Perkeo Chrismat refers to, and when he says 'very sharp' he is likely thinking of something like this:

Victoria Inner Harbour by tbransco, on Flickr

kingbuzzie · Jun 3, 2018

After doing some more tests (I've blown through 3 rolls of film now, but I've never had to test focus like this before), Jurgen asked me to send it back for adjustment. The inside of the lens was also a bit hazy, so hopefully he was able to clean that up as well. A bit disappointing to have wasted the film and pay more shipping, but great, quick service from him as usual. We're lucky to have his service, but judging for the forums everyone already feels that way.

darinwc · Jun 3, 2018

Maybe send your watameter along with it.

Voigtländer Perkeo I focus w/ watameter

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