Vogue printing method

[sodarum]

Greetings,

Does anyone know whether Vogue (the major ones, UK, France, USA etc.) magazines were printed using rotogravure or offset method? I'm actually most interested in the period between 70's and 90's. There are free digital copies of some of the old numbers on archive.org, but they aren't of high enough resolution for me to tell. The new editions seem to use, at least in some cases offset.

I guess the easiest way to answer this question would be for someone with an old Vogue and a magnifier to check it.

If there was a switch between rotogravure and offset, I'd also be interested to know when did it happen?

Thanks

 

[darkosaric]

Hi,

welcome to APUG . I have heard more than once about picture quality of older magazines. For sure someone here will give some details about it - but maybe it is also good idea to buy one - two examples on ebay or somewhere?

Regards,

 

[cliveh]

I may be wrong, but I was always under the impression they were printed photogravure. I was also led to believe that the best printers of this process are in Italy, where some were printed.

 

[MDR]

This might interest you it's a link to the technical and mechanical specification for GLAMOUR which is published by Condé Nast http://www.condenast.co.uk/displayadverts/pdfs/new/Glamour Rotogravure August 2013.pdf
and here for all other mags including Vogue http://www.condenast.co.uk/displayadverts/pdfs/new/Technical Specs July 2013.pdf
the glamour one has more info it's related to advertisement but should give you an idea how Vogue is printed

Up until 2004 the photospreads in Vogue were printed using the rotogravure process and parts of it if not all are still printed that way.
Source:
Graphic Communications Today (2004)
by William E. Ryan,Theodore E. Conover

 

[sodarum]

Hi,

Thanks for the answers so far.

So why do they make a difference between different types of pages? I read in a technical book that you can't use rotogravure on all types of papers. Is that why they don't use rotogravure for the cover? I assume there is also a price difference?

I also read somewhere that books are always printed using the offset technique. I have a few books with published works of famous photographers, also done in offset. Wouldn't it be better to use rotogravure for visually oriented books like that?

 

[MDR]

Not all books are being printed in offset many BOD or low volume publications are printed with digital printing machines, some photographers choose to print the images in their books with the Heliogravure/Photo Intaglio process and some books are even printed using old printing press. Ultra low Volume Books are also often done using inkjet printers. In the past photobooks often used the collotype process for pictures colored prints were often done using the chromolithography. Daido Moriyama used a photo copier to produce some of his books.

The Vogue cover used to be printed using the rotogravure process they still might do that.

 

[sodarum]

This seems to show a pattern like rotogravure, but it's difficult to tell for certain. I'm no expert though. It's from (probably USA) 1988

Dead Link Removed

This seems to be offset. France 1974

http://haleyanna.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/scan-15.jpeg

...

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Let me try to share my knowledge , one of the main difference between rotogravure othername tiffdruck and offset is the ink and its additives for drying.
Rotogravure generally uses alcohol as additive and very quick drying process of alcohol makes dots sharper. Offset uses water as additive and it uses the cylinders to carry the ink and dots from main cylinder to paper and it does blur the dots. And slow evopration speed of water always causes the loss of details.
Offset uses a positive relief main cylinder to get the ink from the other cylinder and the amount of ink you can get on the relief is faraway less than the digs of rotogravure. Rotogravure dot map and depth of digs dots map is three dimensional and you can create lots more grades , color saturation , eye catching skin tons with rotogravure.

The research must be done to learn the pigment and dye composition of inks printed that old pages. And the engraving technology used by the printers , prepress methods and how they made proofs , did they use a drum scanner or enlarger etc etc.
I read a north europe research and half or more of the rotogravure printing operators dies young from cancer.
Color , good color is always hand in hand with poison.

 

[sodarum]

Hi, thanks for your input...

are you sure about that part about the sharpness of dots?

Here is a comparison of the same image printed in different methods, from the book The Reproduction of Color by Hunt. I was under the impression that the dots blend together in rotogravure, and stay sharp in offset.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Screening technology is important also. I think your gravure sample did not created by engraving the dots by diamond stylus but acid. As you see at the image , diifference between one dimensional positive relief of offset and three dimensional negative relief of rotogravure , rotogravure have lot more ink and degrade on the paper. Rotogravure is my passion and researched quite a lot the web and there is very small amount of information , Rochester University have a course program but I think that technological science is a in house knowledge of linotype hell. I think screening technology , ink chemistry ,color science, pshycology, brain , fluid flow and alcohol evaporation , each requires a diploma.

Basic technology looks like simple but not. Dont worry , with digital cameras , drum scanners, using that technology seems to me useless and death art. I dont know where are you living , but getting copies of course notes of all above progrram students is the only way. I researched the german universities , no open course ware but deep passwords for pdfs.

Making 3d deep reliefs to dichromated gelatin after screening and covering it on to copper plate and acid treatment can give you 3d master.

Mastering this would be easy if you know the for example gravure technique. Thats why they are expensive prints to touch.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Offset uses aluminum masters and rotogravure uses copper masters , after few thousands of prints , aluminum master loses its sharpness. We dont know from your sample , how many prints later , the sample been taken. And rotogravure have lot more pressure at the cylinder.
I worked at the industry and printers who have have small budget customers are offset customers and printers uses more water and cheaper inks to remain profitable. And lots of printers does not have time to print enough to sample and adjust the colors. Lots of them does not use densiometer but the experience of master printer. It goes fast and no time to adjust the colors also.

Rotogravure cylinders are stronger and lot more expensive , technology and printing machines are more expensive it requires only customers who have deep money , lots of prints . They are the people who wants better prints. Ink money , 3d relief , stronger cylinders , time for minute adjustments and ability to keep minute adjustments for longer time , makes you love these prints. And lot better photographers , more photographs , better films and processing... Vogue can not accept the other way.

And resolution of prints are more ,60 for cheaper magazine , 83 for national geographic.

And the quality , precision , tolerance , vibration of used printing machine is very important AND THE PAPER.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Last thing , every professional printing house have a densiometric specification , and the screening must be done with the care of that. Some printers - I dont know why - refuses to give it out , some gives out. And I dont know how many prepress house have software to do so.

I think professional magazines solves every issue.

It seems to me it all about to do professional job and not.