Awty brought up the most pitiful part of the whole fiasco earlier in this thread. They had to know she was still alive. Two years of "looking" for her and they couldn't find her? From the getgo the people with her work were trying to make money from it, damn the consequences, and the law.
The only legitimate work of hers would be the prints she made or had made during her lifetime. Even then, how do we know what she would have selected to show? Everything new is just sad, made for the modern aesthetic. If she had no input into what was shown or printed, then it isn't legitimate regardless of the romantic ideas that people have. If she wanted the work to be shown during her life, maybe she would have tried. It isn't up to people who have no clue what her wishes were to produce the work now. I find the whole thing shameful. If you look at the images that were produced recently then at the old prints (they are in one of the videos) the new prints just look modern, and have nothing to do with the vintage prints. Aesthetically they are not even close. And the modern prints are large. Of course they are. More $$$$$.
Was she a good photographer? Yes. Was she one of the greats? Not really. People sure like a good story even if it isn't doesn't track with reality. Money to be made don't you know....
She's dead so she has no feelings. Anything ascribed to her are our feelings, not hers. We have very few rights once we're gone. People write biographies about many dead people, some of them not so nice, some a lot better. Did some people make money on it., Well, sure. It would still be hidden if there wasn''t a profit motive. I think if she were alive and had a chance to comment, she would have been pleased that her work is being shown publicly and that people enjoy her legacy rather than being lost in an attic somewhere. Let's enjoy it too. Isn't it great that we can?
If the story is correct, they would sue the publication where they're picture appeared. I would guess that a crime scene, for example, might be construed as a "negative context." But this is France, not the USA.I find this difficult to believe. Who is going to bother to sue? How recognisable are they? Are they portrayed in a negative context?
I find this difficult to believe. Who is going to bother to sue? How recognisable are they? Are they portrayed in a negative context?
Was she a good photographer? Yes. Was she one of the greats? Not really.
There's plenty of stuff that can be done within those constraints! I know there are a couple of photos in my gallery that could get me in trouble, but for the most part, a lot can be done to keep people anonymous
Yes. Thank YouShe's dead so she has no feelings. Anything ascribed to her are our feelings, not hers. We have very few rights once we're gone. People write biographies about many dead people, some of them not so nice, some a lot better. Did some people make money on it., Well, sure. It would still be hidden if there wasn''t a profit motive. I think if she were alive and had a chance to comment, she would have been pleased that her work is being shown publicly and that people enjoy her legacy rather than being lost in an attic somewhere. Let's enjoy it too. Isn't it great that we can?
What? I can't imagine that someone would think that was the purpose of my comment, but I'll just assume I expressed myself incorrectly. I was specifically replying to a poster who implied that those limitations would make street shooting less appealing for him in France today...Drop ..... Winogrand, Arbus, Klein, HCB, Viviam Maier into that scenario.
"You" just wiped out their careers
What? I can't imagine that someone would think that was the purpose of my comment, but I'll just assume I expressed myself incorrectly. I was specifically replying to a poster who implied that those limitations would make street shooting less appealing for him in France today...
I understood you.
I was just saying.......... if those names had been under those laws, we very well might not know their names.
Your post was just for reference................ i quoted the word "you" for good reason.
This is pretty gross assessment of all the lies that have been said about her, or truths that have never made into th novel way of describing her life. Being dead removes all the once expected respect? Money making off of that is to be condoned then?
How do you know she would have been pleased seeing what is going on about her life, and in fact photography? You don't, and that is probably the only fact about your post.
Everybody has the right to turn a blind eye on anything, not everyone has to.
Interesting to say, but the prints are of the negatives she shot. She composed the images, got the film developed (or not). Making a print involves choices but the content was already there on the film. So what you're saying doesn't amount to much, really. People aren't judging the images on the basis of their presentation as much as on the content and composition (which is more the relational layout of aspects of the content than the way the photo is printed).
I'm inclined to agree she was not one of the "greats" but it's mostly due to her outsider status. No one ever promoted her vision while she was alive - including her. The greats have all been promoted in every conceivable way possible - and most of them are "great" on the basis of a handful of recognizable photos. It's impossible to say what her output would have been if she'd been part of the photographic community. Perhaps she would have become more stale, like the former pros Bob mentioned above. Or perhaps she would have reached Arbus status. Everything is speculation. But the fact remains a lot of her photos are objectively good and many people find them meaningful.
Ignoring that only sounds like resentment.
Hear hear. The filtration of past art, literature, etc. through modern pieties is one of the many diseases inflicted upon us by postmodern philosophy. We can appreciate the art of someone without necessarily accepting all their views, history, behavior and so forth. This retroactive application of contemporary ideas upon historical artifacts has caused no end of mischief.You're the one focusing on the negative. I'm focusing on the positive. Her rich work is now open to the public to be enjoyed by humanity. Should we bury Van Gogh's work after his death because he was a miserable depressive who cut off his ear while alive? Of course, people with profit motives made it possible. What's wrong with profit? Employers hire us because they want to make a profit and we're helping them. Should we all quit?
Thank you for your clarification!
It was my fault.
Simply quoting the word "you" was weak on my part
I should have taken a whole nother 60 seconds to say
............I am just quoting your post for reference.
You are discussing the law as it applies to "Modem day amateur photographers" and how they might work within those confines.
Your post has nothing to do with the careers of people i will mention below..
There is my apology.
Are you happy now..... you heartless bastid
If you kids don't settle down, I'm gonna send you to the darkroom to mix chemicals and load 35mm bulk film ...
As long as it's not mixing D76 from scratch...If you kids don't settle down, I'm gonna send you to the darkroom to mix chemicals
Yep!Are you happy now..... you heartless bastid
Thank you! I didn't know that existed!I use Firefox browser with the add-on "Easy Youtube Video Downloader Express" to archive videos.
Any discussion about whether a dead person has "feelings" that can be hurt by slanderous allegations seems to forget the fact that their is a Trust in place for the benefit of Ms. Maier's estate and the Trustee may have a very strong interest in the financial effects of any such allegations on the earning potential of that Trust.
Dead people have $$ interests that people sue to protect - just ask the Trustees for the estate of Elvis Presley or a myriad of others.
But the former has to do with emotional harm (much harder to show damages, I would think), whereas the latter is entirely a matter of economic harm (which ought to be easier to demonstrate).
Not being argumentative, just inquisitive on how the law might deal differently with the two cases.
"Great" by comparison to whom? The arts mafia likes to lionize people that align with their socio-political agenda irrespective of their actual ability. Examples include Dorthea Lange, Annie Liebovitz, Sebastian Salgado, Ansel Adams, and Sally Mann. That's not to say they were not competent photographers, just that their "greatness" was manufactured because they made the right politicial and social noises.
But Maier's work stands on its own - no agent, no gallery to pimp her work, no arts critics to make sure her work gets the nod - just the work on its own. That's remarkable in its own right.
Sure, it's raw, unorganized, unedited, and perhaps without full context, but at least the stuff I've seen, I think is superb. The lack of social and political filtering by a third party makes it so much moreso (clearly, she had her own social and political filters as we all do).
Full disclosure: I consider art in the service of commerce "advertising" and art in the service of politics "propaganda", and art in the service of contemporary culture "cotton candy". While each of these have created some occasionally lasting good work, it's rare that any of them have any real durability. Art for its own sake and only for its own sake is much more precious and rare. The truth is that because it is so hard to make great art, people resort to the aforementioned as a sort of short cut to try to become relevant, important, famous, influential, rich etc.
Oh, and Artists Statements are the height of self importance wherein the artist attempts to insert themselves in front of the art. Let the work speak (or not).
My 2 kopeks worth. YMMV. We can all still be friends.
Well, I would love to see a list of those "artists" who meet your criteria.
I was talking about the aesthetics of the prints, not the content of the images themselves. And the prints don't matter? What world have you been living in?
I am not sure where the resentment comment comes in
Any discussion about whether a dead person has "feelings" that can be hurt by slanderous allegations seems to forget the fact that their is a Trust in place for the benefit of Ms. Maier's estate and the Trustee may have a very strong interest in the financial effects of any such allegations on the earning potential of that Trust.
Dead people have $$ interests that people sue to protect - just ask the Trustees for the estate of Elvis Presley or a myriad of others.
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