Vivian Maier Meaning Without Context

MattKing said:

Bob:

How important is it to you as a printer that you are unable to consult with the creator of the negatives you are printing?

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Hi Matt - not sure if this is a set up question or not, as it may take a bit of divine intervention or a good medium to make this happen in this particular body of work.
But its a great question and I hope I can answer it in a convincing , honestly plain manner.

There are hundreds of samples of vintage Vivian prints that I have seen, as well I have spoken and continue to speak with Ron Gordon who initially printed this work.
So for my part there is a guide for me to follow. I have all of the published books and as probably like all here I have read everything about this work.
I am using my background of printing negatives for others since 1976 as a reference as well , I cut my chops during this timeline of work and have made hundreds of thousand
prints of negatives so I feel pretty comfortable with my laying down tone on silver gelatin paper.
I think one of the reasons I was given this assignment is that the owners of the negatives have spent the time to personally get to know me and feel a trust or bond with me.
This is probably the single most important aspect - as I am sure there are many other talented printers who could do a good job as well.
Also I knew about this work back when the images were on Ebay as one of my staff at the time bought 40 Vivian negatives, so I am a bit in the loop so to speak. I have been following
this for quite a few years.

What we do as printers is not rocket science or complicated brain surgery, its an interpretation of a group of negatives. All I can do is lay down density and contrast and
make sure that the 40 images work well, or hang well together, There is not a lot of artistic adjustments I am making to these images, I am trying to make them look real (believable) as seen in the books. I do not think when viewing the work people will say ( what a great printing job) my goal is to make them look at the image and appreciate the photographers story.

Another project I am bringing to market is Dave Hunsberger, who I actually knew in the late 70's, his work is very much like Vivian Maier's work where he documented Mennonite life in Kitchener Ontario.
He too worked over 40 years in the same timeline and never exhibited his work extensively.
Once again all I need to do as a printer is make nicely balanced silver gelatin prints that draw the viewer too the image, not my burns or dodges. This work is exciting for me as I am good friends with his son now, and I will be the first person every printing Dave's work other than Dave and Fred . I have lots of reference to guide me and so this is exciting.

I have not worked with many well known photographers for various reasons.
One being the request to match another printers print exactly - I can tell you thisis a complete waste of time and extremely frustrating, basically copy work and I would hate to do this for the rest of my life.
Another reason being that I personally did not get along well in my meetings with the photographer, there is a bond that needs to be struck, and I cannot do this with people
I do not get along with. This is on a level where if mutual respect is not given why bother.
Another reason is conflict on how a body of work is to be printed , and this rears its ugly head specifically with Alternative Printmaking, where the client is expecting an inkjet quality impression and I deliver something , flatter, moodier, softer - you get the idea.
This conflict and be solved together over a few sessions in the darkroom and usually I can become like a chameleon and change to my clients needs. I have always said here and on large format that
there are hundreds of printing styles and at some point its my job to match that style to the photographers wishes. So this may be critical to your question as I never push my STYLE on anyone, but rather try to find out what STYLE the client wants.

I personally like to be the first printer on any body of work and over the last 25 years I have garnered a group of photographers where I have been the only one touching their work.
A lot of give and take is required for this and every one has their preferences of paper , contrast , density, styling within the print.
If I am lucky it will be a wonderful way to continue on my career printing for others .
What is nice about what we do is each time a new negative comes into my hands its wonderful to figure out how to make it sing.

Thanks Bob - that is very helpful.

I asked, because I've done a bit of printing for others, and I tend to prefer having a "client" with a preference for how the image should come out. Sometimes though, one just gets a negative and a "do your best" set of instructions. For those negatives, you always wonder if the results would have been better (for the "client") if they had been more restrictive in their instructions.

Wish I could see your prints in person.

MattKing said:

Wish I could see your prints in person.

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Matt, Bob's work is truly spectacular. The ease in which he does it is exceptionally frustrating to anyone who prints their own work!

Having had the privilege of seeing some of Bob's work in person, I'd love to be able to see this show. Seems like a great excuse for a road trip.

thanks Dinesh and bdial

Matt here is how I work and its so damn simple ... If it looks real or right it probably is. I take the Toronto Transit System each day for the last two years, underground , above ground , over bridges, looking at passengers, I study the lighting and kind of put a mental note to myself for future reference of what grey sky looks light, what does back light look like , in bright sunlight do things burn out or can I see detail .. Once in the darkroom I try to bring back these impressions, I don't know it this helps but in documentary work its a pretty sound principle to follow.

Bob Carnie said:

Hi Tony

thanks - I am pretty sure the Vivian Maier work will be brought to the world by the people overseeing the negatives. Stephen Bulger and Howard Greenburg are incredible guardians and
will make sure this work gets seen. Every one I have met with associated with this project are keen photography enthusiasts . I am sure Sydney will have its show some day in the future.

Bob

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I was in the Howard Greenberg gallery in NY in April. There was "best of" exhibition on the walls which was great, but while I was there they were also starting to curate a Mary Ellen Mark exhibition. Many of her large prints were laid out on the floor while the curator and gallery staff debated the ins and outs. I spent a pleasant 20 minutes gawking and imagining what the final show might look like. Yes, I'm sure one day a Vivian Maier exhibition will find its way down under. I have been following her story since it first broke. Cheers Tony.

Tony that would have been a great experience.

Looking forward to seeing your prints url Bob ! I was fortunate enough to see some of the binders of negatives Stephen holds and I agree about her shooting sequence (little to no bracketing). Photograph and move on. If only his gallery had more wall space

I am sure He will find a larger space in the appropriate time line.

canuhead said:

Looking forward to seeing your prints url Bob ! I was fortunate enough to see some of the binders of negatives Stephen holds and I agree about her shooting sequence (little to no bracketing). Photograph and move on. If only his gallery had more wall space

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so he told me It won't break my heart to see him leave the Queen West area, too many skinny jeans for my liking but some good restaurants there though.

canuhead said:

so he told me It won't break my heart to see him leave the Queen West area, too many skinny jeans for my liking but some good restaurants there though.

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Oh I meant Museums , I doubt he would leave Queen West, he is a fixture that way.

Just finished the project - time for a cognac.

What a tease! Where's the orange jumpsuit?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/...ticle30610976/


Here are two links that speak to The Vivian Maier Show now running at The Stephen Bulger Gallery here in Toronto.

I want to thank Brad Pitt for posing with images for me downstairs in the darkroom.

https://dylanellisgallery.wordpress....-vivian-maier/

Bob:

Thanks for the Globe and Mail link. It is very interesting.

You should have dug up one of your old orange jump suits for Brad to wear for the photo session.

MattKing said:

Bob:

Thanks for the Globe and Mail link. It is very interesting.

You should have dug up one of your old orange jump suits for Brad to wear for the photo session.

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Hi Matt

It would have been too big for him,

will be back to the orange jumpsuits in the winter as I am working on larger projects that kick around a lot of chemistry
I will try to get a good colour this time.

Bob

I went to see it yesterday. Amazing! And it is free to look at!
And walking from where to Union mostly on the Queen Street is my favorite photo walk.

I've seen the first show last year and I plan to go next Sat to see the new prints made by Bob. I'm very excited

I wonder if the show will come to Calgary? I hope so! Bob you are my darkroom god. Vivian would be so impressed with your work. And you know, I bet you two would have hit it off.

Ko.Fe. said:

I went to see it yesterday. Amazing! And it is free to look at!
And walking from where to Union mostly on the Queen Street is my favorite photo walk.

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Will see the show next week. Really looking forward to it.

This Is/Might Be/Potentially Is/etc etc.....a historic moment in Photography.
20-35-50 years from now, who knows what hand fate will have dealt to film and the cameras (we are now using) that used them and made all the worlds "Iconic Pictures".
These Vivian Maier Prints, that we are discussing here, might have earned Significant Status. Who knows what Info/Facts about this woman might come to light in future years.
Her Memory/Fame might fade away in a few years; and then do to future circumstance, she may experience a Renaissance. These prints might resurface in an Important/Popular manner. Coming generations may well "re-discover" her in a Trendy/Stylish/Beloved manner. It might be cool to wear a T-Shirt with a picture of Vivian on the front...dressed in a frumpy outfit and a funny little hat.
Even if none of that happens, i cannot help but feel that our member Bob Carnie has (perhaps unknowingly at this point) participated in a magical and as chance may have it... Significant Moment.

Thank you all for kind words, Yes I think I would have gotten along with Vivian, I know many photographers over the years and what you read is kind of like the people I encounter. Just this month Elaine Ling passed away , I knew her, processed film for her, she printed her own work and was a very strong influence to others here in Toronto. She exhibited the same kind of passion for photography that I can only imagine Vivian had.

Yesterday a woman - still silently shooting but working in a completely non relative field, came to me to print one image, the last time I worked with her was 20 years ago, she was just as enthused about photography as before, life has gotten in the way and changed her but this common photography bug we all have is very strong, and I have witnessed many versions of the addiction. She still is excited to have prints made of her recent work and I am very happy to work with her.

I have been very fortunate to meet Jeff, Ron and Sandy here at my place. These are the original team that worked on Vivian's negatives. They are very down to earth people and Ron who is 10 years older than me, is like a clone of me or me of him, when we first met at Stephen Bulger's gallery we a sat for an hour or two just talking about , Ilford Warmtone, Developers, Enlargers.
We both felt very in tune with each other and as we looked at his prints, we discussed simple things like grades, dodge, burn, scratches on negs, all the darkroom stuff. All around us walked the crowds looking at the show, we were very much unaware of anything else. This was one of my first moments that I really got to know this work , and talking with the group I realized that this work would indeed over years hit a world market and have an impact on our photo world.

When Stephen Bulger bought the negatives, and moved them to safety in Canada, I was very pleased that the work was safe. Stephen Bulger in my opinion is going to go down in history as a legendary photo expert, dealer and collector. IMO he is the right person to guide this work forward, you only have to meet him, or follow his career to know if anyone will present this work properly it will be him.
When asked to do this show I immediately said yes, I did talk with Ron , and Jeffrey about the work, and basically my role was to follow Ron's lead in print quality and Stephen curated the selection of images, 7 of them 1st edition and two of the murals 1st edition. I have signed all the prints on back of prints this indeed as Mr Moore states was a Significant Moment.

Significant Moment

this is how I will describe it for my personal life and maybe some younger printer will see the value in what I am about to say.

When I graduated from photo school I realized that photography was a blessing for me , as I was adept at it and I was in love with the complexity and growth potential.
I cut my teeth very early printing weddings, portraits, custom murals for advertising and then photo comp. I felt that I was a good printer and I also knew another important factor that most after 15 years I absolutely loved photography and still wanted to print new neg's.
So I started a small printing business and competed against very strong competition (there were at least 7 well established BW printing operations in Toronto at this time), I think my edge was my love for photography.

Second important factor.
I decided very early not to go to larger markets and NOT print for famous photographers, I actually have never asked to print for any single photographer.
Also I refused to work for some extremely well known photographers because it boiled down to me trying to copy another printers work.. This copy work to me was bullshit and I decided early to only work with new clients where I was the only one touching their work.

So the chance to work on Vivian's work was a challenge as Ron had made prints before me, so I talked with him and we both seemed to be on the same page, I was not given match prints but rather I had one silver print which was in the show to use as a size guide and colour for the selenium. But Stephen basically said to me , Bob you have been printing since the 70's , this is the timeline of the negatives, do a good job.
Where Vivian Maier's work will go I am not sure, that is up to the owners of the collections , but I am very happy to have my Significant Moment with her work and hope to work with other bodies of work that are out there.

Also to the young printers- there is a need for people to be able to print in the style of 1950's - now in black and white and colour. Even though we are overwhelmed with digital a new generation of neg making from capture is on us, needing wet process, Archives are open with bodies of work to present, Millions of images on film are still needing to be seen, I would think that though it would be tough today for me to start over , I think the opportunities are greater, one just needs to be more creative. Cream always rises to the Top - if you have it go for it.

I saw the exhibit about a week ago on Labourday weekend. Great photo's in multiple ways. I was quite impressed with the print quality. Bob, I think that you did a great job. You must have a very good and expensive enlarger. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to make it to your gallery. Hopefully next time when I'm in Toronto again.

Menno

spijker said:

I saw the exhibit about a week ago on Labourday weekend. Great photo's in multiple ways. I was quite impressed with the print quality. Bob, I think that you did a great job. You must have a very good and expensive enlarger. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to make it to your gallery. Hopefully next time when I'm in Toronto again.

Menno

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I was wondering where you got too. next time