Vinegar as a Fixing Bath

Christopher Walrath · Jan 19, 2015

Well, in lieu of awaiting my shipment from Freestyle, I was wondering in the meantime I might be able to use white vinegar as a Fixing bath for film? I know you can use it as a stop by diluting it so that the overall acidity is 2% (ie. 2% glacial acetic acid). But can it be used to fix without getting exotic and needing to add more ingredients?

Photo Engineer · Jan 19, 2015

Ask Chris!

Seriously though, NO, NO, NO! You cannot use stop as fix.

PE

Sirius Glass · Jan 19, 2015

White vinegar would act as stop bath but NOT fixer. Please listen to the man!

cmacd123 · Jan 19, 2015

It might be used as ONE ingredient in a DIY fix bath. But the magic in fixer is Sodium thiosulfate or Ammonium thiosulfate.

BTW, I was in the grocery store today and noticed they had "Washing Vinegar" as a 10% Acetic Acid solution beside the normal 5% stuff. or is that the same stuff that used to be sold as "Pickling Vinegar"

Christopher Walrath · Jan 19, 2015

Gotcha. Wait for the Kodafix. All hail the Great Yellow Father as long as he stands.

Thanks, all.

removed account4 · Jan 19, 2015

well ... a few weeks ago
someone suggested they would mail people baking soda to be used as a fixer
maybe if you use the vinegar as you stop and baking soda as you fix
instead of fixing your film, you can make a mini volcano in your darkroom

HOPEFULLY PEOPLE READING THIS REALIZE I AM JOKING, BAKING SODA CANNOT BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR FIX !!!

Christopher Walrath · Jan 19, 2015

jnanian said:
well ... a few weeks ago
someone suggested they would mail people baking soda to be used as a fixer
maybe if you use the vinegar as you stop and baking soda as you fix
instead of fixing your film, you can make a mini volcano in your darkroom

And I just got my year's supply of modeling clay. Blue Ribbon, here I come!

doughowk · Jan 19, 2015

If in a hurry, you might check with local pool supply stores for they may carry sodium thiosulfate sold as a chlorine reducer.

Christopher Walrath · Jan 19, 2015

Thanks for the tip. But Kodafix will be here by the weekend.

Jim Noel · Jan 19, 2015

Baking soda will not fix film or paper.

Kevin Caulfield · Jan 19, 2015

Jim Noel said:
Baking soda will not fix film or paper.

As Rocknewyorkcity found out.

removed account4 · Jan 19, 2015

Kevin Caulfield said:
As Rocknewyorkcity found out.

actually that is who posted it was fix, and after a w33k + after no one else said anything, i corrected the post
... i was afraid someone was going to google, or is it oogle for some home remedy /
kitchen sink variety of fixer and see that , and totally ruin their film and prints, they'd totally say that apug
had nonsense posted on it, that obviously wan't a parody or SUPPOSED TO BE NONSENSE ( like what i posted )

years ago someone posted that you could remedy your poorly fixed prints with a baking soda bath as well ....
also false information !

the internet is full of stuffs that people wish were true, but isn't ... although i heard that if it is on the WICKI its gotta be true !

Photo Engineer · Jan 19, 2015

Keep moving, there is nothing to see here!

Rudeofus · Jan 20, 2015

We all agree that stop bath is no fixer, but would the following procedure work?

develop film
2 minutes in Acetic Acid 2%
wash film with tap water
take film out of tank, inspect in daylight for a few minutes
dry film in dark (but not totally light sealed) storage closet
rewind dry film onto film spindle, store in dry film tank for the time it takes to get fixer, at most a few days
Fix film when fixer has arrived

removed account4 · Jan 20, 2015

hi rudeofus

i don't have experience with unfixed dry dark stored film
but i do with dry, unfixed dark stored paper prints ( those made like a lumen print
but as contact prints or photograms, and retina prints / long exposed in a camera )
they tend to turn grey and useless, at least with me even in a dark bag in a box stored in the dark ...
not sure it it will work with film, although i have a retina film-print made with film that turned black the same way ..

not sure what that means, since they aren't images made through " conventional means"
my guess is it isn't the same .. and my poorly-thought-out not-correct-answer
is that maybe the exposure to the sun, uv, blue light room light &c for an extended length of time
and exposure through brute force ... the affect of the light is somehow stored in the emulsion and
even though the materials are removed from the light source ( where they soaked the rays ) ... the effect of the light
(chemical rays of light reacting with the light sensitive emulsion ) continues and isn't stopped if left unfixed.
so ... it light-ages. maybe short exposures ( like normal / conventional camera exposures with tiny amounts of light )
on film ( and enlarger exposures / conventional exposures ) in conventional developer & the methodology you describe would work
because the exposures isn't the same scale ?

a super saturated salt solution will stabilize the image ( conventionally exposed + developed ) until fixer can be obtained as well.
it takes days, not minutes, seconds or hours ...

Rick A · Jan 20, 2015

Rudeofus said:
We all agree that stop bath is no fixer, but would the following procedure work?

take film out of tank, inspect in daylight for a few minutes

NO!!!!!!!!!

Xmas · Jan 20, 2015

Rudeofus said:
We all agree that stop bath is no fixer, but would the following procedure work?

develop film

2 minutes in Acetic Acid 2%

wash film with tap water

take film out of tank, inspect in daylight for a few minutes

Id suggest some are in denial...
The last step will fail as the developed but not fixed image is not good enough to inspect, cept to try to judge dev 'complete'.
It would be 'safe' to try an indirect dark green safe light in a darkroom for a short time only, but more then that no. The silver halides are not stable.
Film is not like digital no chimping...
It is safe to pull reel out of the tank after three minutes in fix and put it back if it is still milky, as part of a fix by inspection procedure, rather then by time and temperature, always fix at 20C otherwise...

paul_c5x4 · Jan 20, 2015

Rudeofus said:
We all agree that stop bath is no fixer, but would the following procedure work?

develop film

2 minutes in Acetic Acid 2%

wash film with tap water

take film out of tank, inspect in daylight for a few minutes

Was doing a dip'n'dunk processing of a sheet of film. It fell out of the holding frame whilst in the stop bath, and after fumbling in the dark trying to find it, I ended up turning on the lights. Managed to locate the errant sheet and get it in to the fix bath pretty sharp, but ended up with significant base fog as a result.

pentaxuser · Jan 20, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
Keep moving, there is nothing to see here!

With trigger words like mini volcano and even innocent powders such as baking soda then given the state of the world recently maybe jnanian will need to keep moving at least to a safe house.

Harvey Keitel does some great adverts for a British Insurance company using such phrases as "safe house, time to disappear, I know people who can make sure it never happens again" etc

pentaxuser

removed account4 · Jan 20, 2015

pentaxuser said:
With trigger words like mini volcano and even innocent powders such as baking soda then given the state of the world recently maybe jnanian will need to keep moving at least to a safe house.

Harvey Keitel does some great adverts for a British Insurance company using such phrases as "safe house, time to disappear, I know people who can make sure it never happens again" etc

pentaxuser

sorry folks, no need to be alarmed, ... i am just remembering american tv from the 1970s
no safe house needed, just some crackers to go along with all that american cheese.
[video=youtube;O4KMk6T5mQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4KMk6T5mQU[/video]

and now that i posted this, i realized there was no baking soda or vinegar so i would like to retract my previous post ...

pdeeh · Jan 20, 2015

Despite all the naysaying, I regularly fix my bath with vinegar - it takes the limescale right off

BobMarvin · Jan 20, 2015

Regarding the suggestion to dry unfixed film, I doubt that's a good idea. However, once, while on vacation, I discovered too late that the 5 L bottle of "fixer"I brought with me to Vermont was just the soaper water I had used to wash out the jug. I left my developed, but un-fixed film in a plain water bath, inside my tank, for a few days until my order of fixer arrived from B&H. No harm was done–my negatives were fine.

37th Exposure · Jan 21, 2015

If you haven't developed the film yet, just wait for the fixer to come. You're not saving any time and you could ruin the film.

Vinegar as a Fixing Bath

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