View or Field Camera?

Hi,

I'm a 35mm and medium format camera user and I'm thinking of buying my first large format.

One of my doubts is to buy a view or field camera, I would use it sporadically and my preference is for landscapes and architecture.

You who already use this format, which of the two would indicate me?

Regards,
Ricardo

You really don't need a lot in the way of movements for landscape photography. The lighter weight and portability of a field camera by far makes the most sense here. Maybe for architecture too.

You will need a camera with a lot of front rise for tall buildings so they don't look like they are falling over. A monorail may make sense here. I don't know a lot about shooting interiors.

You say you will be using it "sporadically". You can pick up a monorail really cheap right now and if you don't mind lugging it around then you won't be out much money. You could shoot it for a while and decide which you want. Most of us don't keep our first camera anyway. Just remember that there is a learning curve so if you really want to get good then it's going to take some time and a lot of film. It is a lot of fun though!

First, about your terminology. A field camera is a type of view camera. Monorail is the another popular type of view camera, and is probably what you meant by "view camera". A view camera is any camera with a ground glass on the back that you view the image through to compose and focus the shot. Just so you know.

Yeah, as for which one, that's hard to say with both landscapes AND architecture. For architecture, I mostly use monorails. Building are usually near roads, which means I can easily drive my car to where I need to go and take the shot, so camera weight isn't an issue. Monorails are usually more sturdy and have much more movement possibilities. And since building have lots of straight lines and can be next to other buildings, that means you may not be able to position the camera exactly where you want, and lots of movements are often a good thing for dealing with that. I use movements for almost every architectural photography I take with my LF camera (rise if nothing else). Field cameras don't offer any advantage here, and are much more costly, less sturdy to deal with, and have less movements (and usually less bellows extension, should you need it). Plus with very wide lenses, it often helps to have bag bellows on your camera. Not all field cameras can use bag bellows. Bag bellows allow large movements with short focal length lenses without destroying your regular bellows.

Landscape is almost the opposite. I rarely use movements in landscape. Sometimes I use some forward tilt or rise and fall, but not usually a whole lot of movement, even when it's required. If you're just walking a short distance from your car, a monorail is still a viable option. I've done it many times. But if you've got a long hike in some bad terrain, the lighter and smaller the better. And this is where field cameras earn their paycheck. They lack the extreme movements of a monorail, but will still have enough movements for most of your architectural photography, especially if you don't use extremely wide angle lenses.

So you can use either camera for either subject, assuming you're willing to put up with the hassles.

Honestly, I don't own a field camera and probably never will unless I want an 8x10 or larger camera for landscape work one day. For 4x5, I've found press cameras to be an even better option for me. They have less movements than a field camera, but they're rugged, small, and lightweight. Plus they can be shot handheld. And they have just enough movements for most landscape work (depending on the model of press camera). Some, like my Speed Graphic, have a focal plane shutter which is a big plus, because you can use barrel lenses, enlarger lenses, projector lenses, or diy lenses without a shutter. And, for the price of one field camera, you can buy one monorail and one press camera. That's two for the price of one.

Buy both. Monorails go for peanuts these days. I have an old Cambo monorail that is a dream to use for anything needs significant movements. I also have a wooden field camera that I use for everything else. Oh, and then there is the Crown Graphic lol ......

A Field camera is a View camera. but not all View cameras are Field cameras, some are Press cameras limited movements, others are Technical cameras usually longer bellows extension good movements, and then there's Monorails.

Ian

Thanks for all the answers and sorry I really confused myself, where said "View Camera", I mean "Monorail Camera"

Regards

Eric Rose said:

Buy both. Monorails go for peanuts these days.

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Not here in Brazil, a Sinar F2 without lenses costs more than 500 dollars

Regards

jim10219 said:

First, about your terminology. A field camera is a type of view camera. Monorail is the another popular type of view camera, and is probably what you meant by "view camera". A view camera is any camera with a ground glass on the back that you view the image through to compose and focus the shot. Just so you know.

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Thanks for the explanation!

Regards

jim10219 said:

Plus with very wide lenses, it often helps to have bag bellows on your camera. Not all field cameras can use bag bellows. Bag bellows allow large movements with short focal length lenses without destroying your regular bellows.

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Do you know for example which wide-angle lens I could use in a Toyo 45 AII?

My advice would be to buy a good 6x9 camera and save yourself a whole bunch of trouble.

Hatchetman said:

My advice would be to buy a good 6x9 camera and save yourself a whole bunch of trouble.

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Thanks for the sugestion! Nowadays I use a Pentax 67, and I'm really researching a lot to know if it really pays to buy an LF..

toyo linhof and maybe a few others make/made a technical view camera
this camera was like a clamshell design field camera but allowed for the filmplane to be
manipulated kind of like a view camera.

Ricardo Frias said:

Do you know for example which wide-angle lens I could use in a Toyo 45 AII?

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Most field cameras will go down to 90mm alright. But movements becomes somewhat limited, if not severely limited.

Here's a detailed review about a Toyo 45. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/toyo.html
This guy says 90mm is about the practical limit without a recessed lens board. I don't know how much movement you'd get from a lens like that. He also says it's a lot heavier than most view cameras. Still, Toyo makes good stuff. So it's probably better made than a lighter and cheaper Intrepid.

Why not a handheld camera like a press camera, which can be used as a view camera.

Hatchetman said:

My advice would be to buy a good 6x9 camera and save yourself a whole bunch of trouble.

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A lot of sage advise here. As pointed out landscape and architecture are kid of at odds in terms of 4x5, landscape doesn't need much in the way of movements but would be helpful to be light weight. Architecture will need flexible movements, possibly a bag bellows and will be heavier.
On the 6x9 front, have you thought about a 6x9 monorail? I had a Galvin 2x3 for years because I didn't have the darkroom set up for 4x5. They work well, are very lightweight and usually sell for about $200. Toyo also made the Toyo 23C, B.S Kumar recently sold one here for $200. One of those and your Pentax 6x7 might be all you need.

Eric Rose said:

Buy both. Monorails go for peanuts these days. I have an old Cambo monorail that is a dream to use for anything needs significant movements. I also have a wooden field camera that I use for everything else. Oh, and then there is the Crown Graphic lol ......

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Amen! A good Cambo, Toyo, and even Sinar monorails for under $400; add a few hundred each for lenses, and you could be in business for less than a thousand dollars.

A good "field" camera for starters would be a good used Speed Graphic with a 135mm-class lens; a bit wide but they work nicely, especially for landscape work. I own a Super Graphic and a Sears Tower (Busch Pressman), and they both work quite nicely for field work. I have a Cambo SC with three lenses, and it's about as flexible as I can hope.

You'll also need a good spot meter. I own both Pentax and Soligor spots converted to Zone VI. A good digital Soligor spot can be had for around $75.

You also need to insure that film holders are light tight. You can get good used ones, but new ones are outright expensive. Also a good focusing cloth and a changing bag.

One other thing is a very sturdy tripod, something like a Manfrotto 475B, Bogen 3051, Gitzo 1320. Those are also available used.

Sirius Glass said:

Why not a handheld camera like a press camera, which can be used as a view camera.

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I use and own a few Press cameras and it's a poor suggestion as movements are so limited. A minimum of the movements of a Super Graphic is practical, I use one extensively and haven't run out of movements, but a Speed or Crown is next to useless unless yo need next to no movements.

Ian

Ian Grant said:

I use and own a few Press cameras and it's a poor suggestion as movements are so limited. A minimum of the movements of a Super Graphic is practical, I use one extensively and haven't run out of movements, but a Speed or Crown is next to useless unless yo need next to no movements.

Ian

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Yes, it is a trade off, but one that allows hand held photography to be added to the capabilities. It is a good way to start 4"x5" photography because the camera can be sold for about what it costs plus any lenses could be used on the next camera.

On a budget or for studio = monorail
Otherwise, get a field camera.

Here's a thread from late September. It's a similar vein.

Stenopeika 4x5 Feedback/Reviews?

Ricardo Frias said:

Do you know for example which wide-angle lens I could use in a Toyo 45 AII?

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58mm according to Toyo.

http://www.toyoview.com/Products/45AII/45AII.html

Mick.

Ricardo Frias said:

Thanks for the sugestion! Nowadays I use a Pentax 67, and I'm really researching a lot to know if it really pays to buy an LF..

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Yes and no.

6x7 is a very good negative size, however there are other considerations.

Ilford FP4+ 4x5" film, is 125mm x 100mm actual.

The image size on my negatives from the industry standard film holders is, 120mm x 95mm actual.

That is 11,400 square millimetres of image, compare this to what your actual image area is on your Pentax 6x7.

In another life working in a professional lab complex, we had every format from 35mm right up to 10x8" film coming through for enlarging or drum scanning, mid 1980's. Most of us agreed that good all round working imagery started from 6x7 negatives upwards, that is they could go to magazine or poster reproduction with reasonable quality. Best quality started at 4x5" and marginally improved when using 8x10". The best bang for the buck, image wise, was 4x5". Best bang for money, was 6x7 and if taken with care, often looked pretty good compared to 4x5".

For field use, a folding view camera, like the Toyo you mentioned, would be excellent and with the metal body quite robust. I personally know someone with one of those and it really is a nice camera. The revolving back is brilliant, something mostly only seen on a monorail.

For real architectural stuff, a monorail of some kind is hard to better. There are some excellent technical small and lightweight monorail cameras around, but they sort of go up in price and within reason, unless you live in the USA, they are sort of hard to come by.

I have a Toyo 45G which is a very good monorail, but it is not light and not that small. Geared movements make it a breeze to use.

I also have a Shen Hao HZX45-IIA, one of the older Shen Hao models these days, but a reasonably good all round camera. It has generous front rise and fall, rear rise and really handy rear shift. I also have a bag bellows for this, which is interchangeable in about 1 minute and really easy to carry. I use bag bellows when doing architectural stuff and lenses 150mm or smaller.

http://www.shen-hao.com/PRODUCTSabout.aspx?i=950&id=n3

If you really like to think about what you are taking, then sheet film cameras are really great. The size of the exposed image that you get to work with, really does make a difference. The ability to move the lens in one direction and the film in another direction, really opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

View Camera Technique, by Leslie Stroebel is perhaps the best all round technical book that will give you insight into what is possible and what is available. I have the 7th edition, which has 376 pages of information. I would suggest you may wish to find one of these books, most, if not all of your technical questions will be answered; it cannot answer the question of your desires though.

Mick.

Sirius Glass said:

Yes, it is a trade off, but one that allows hand held photography to be added to the capabilities. It is a good way to start 4"x5" photography because the camera can be sold for about what it costs plus any lenses could be used on the next camera.

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Well in the past year I've bought 3 5x4 cameras, all MPP MicroTechnicals which are essentially British made Linhofs, have similar movements and functions, 2 MkIII's for £70 ($91) one needs rebuilding it's in bits but all there except it's back but I found one, the other a near mint MkVII for £125 ($162). I couldn't get a Speed or Crown Graphic for that price here in the UK.

I did pay around £120 for my Super Graphic but that had a cracked back which was unrepairable and problems with the front standard but with patience I found the parts and rebuilt it. I like the Super Graphic as it has all the movements I need for landscape work and it's easy to hand hold, I was losing shots due to the poor movements with my Crown Graphic, Speeds have a different use because I can use barrel lenses and telephoto's with no shutters

If I was entirely starting from fresh I'd look seriously at the Toyo A and Aii, which the OP mentions, in fact I was on the look out for a 45A when I spotted my Super Graphic for sale (from London, UK) on 3 different forums It hasn't replaced my Wista 45DX but gets used when abroad where I often have to work hand held.

Eric Rose said get both cameras (Field and Monorail), I had a couple of monorail cameras that I used commercially in the 1970's and 80's they never got used after I bought my Wista field camera, eventually I sold them.

Ian

Guys, thank you for the answers, valuable suggestions!

Ricardo

Ricardo Frias said:

Thanks for the sugestion! Nowadays I use a Pentax 67, and I'm really researching a lot to know if it really pays to buy an LF..

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If you want to print larger than you do now with your Pentax 67 then the larger negative certainly has it's advantages.

If you want to use the zone system and develop for each exposure separately then you want large format.

With large format there is a wide range of lenses that you can use. There are modern sharp and contrasty lenses as well as older lenses that render differently. Plus there are soft focus lenses and lenses that can give you swirly bokeh.

There are medium format cameras that can give you perspective controls. I find that the larger the ground glass the more I enjoy the experience. I much prefer composing on my 8x10 ground glass than a 4x5 or smaller ground glass.

You are doing the right thing by doing research before you buy. Large format may be for you and it may not. Read this Home Page info at the Large Format Photography forum. If you do decide to try large format then you should also consider joining that forum in addition to this one. We would be glad to have you!

http://www.largeformatphotography.info