View Camera discussion group

Although I have thought about starting aView Camera magazine discussion group before this recent round of ugliness has made me start plans for a View Camera magazine discussion group on our web site. We wil start this foum at

www.viewcamera.com

on or about Aug. 1, 2004

We will have a panel of people ready to answer questions such as getting started in LF, lenses, pyro, view camera technique, etc.

I have not decided if this will be open to anyone or just subscribers. Any thoughts?

This new group will not tolerate the type of behavior that hasbeen repeatedly displayed on this and other forums where posters engage in character assasination and the name of the game is winning whatever the loss of civility and respect occurs along the way.

Stay tuned. More info will be posted on our web site by mid July

steve simmons

All I want to know is when am I going to get my prints back? Other than that I am sure it will be a peachy place with all the sycophants holding hands singing Kumbaya....

The Lenswork site doesn't seem to be burning up the airways yet. Could be a drafty place Steve. I like it here, warts and all. The people I find really distasteful are on my ignore list so I don't ever have to see their postings.

I'd hate to see this evolve (is devolve a word?) into the same crap going on in the LF Forum thread. I like to think of the APUG crowd as being above all that.

I'm sure the View Camera forum will be helpful to many. I don't think it should be limited to subscribers though.

steve simmons said:

This new group will not tolerate the type of behavior that hasbeen repeatedly displayed on this and other forums where posters engage in character assasination and the name of the game is winning whatever the loss of civility and respect occurs along the way.

Click to expand...

Will blatant Commercial SPAM be tolerated there?

I was a subscriber to the magazine for a while and gave it up because of the hassles involved in getting it in Canada. It was just like you didn't want my subscription. At any rate, I don't believe that no longer being a subscriber makes my opinions any less valid even though I don't choose to express them as often as some others.

I am dismayed at the lack of ethics that are evidenced by the initial post to this thread. However I must say that Mr. Simmons behavior is certainly consistant. That is to say "shitty".

I wonder whether Mr. Simmons would accept requests for "no cost" promotional advertising from Photo Techniques, Black and White Photography, Black and White for Collectors, and any other photographic magazines to be placed in his publications? What do each of you think the result of such a request would be?

I have met some small minded and extremely resentful individuals in my life. However they pale in comparison to this individual and his behavior. I can see that there is one perceivable benefit of Mr. Simmons proposal. It may occupy him to the extent that he wouldn't take up space on sites like this. He could gaze upon his image in pool of his deluded narrcisstic view...there would be only those who would say "Atta boy, Steve!!!, "Right again!!!", "We are so sorry that people do not understand and appreciate your greatness".

Nuff said.

Steve,

I don't think limiting it to subscribers is a good idea. I'm a subscriber and have been off and on a few times and can never seem to save the logon crap on the mailer for the magazine. So what good is the subscriber section for me?

I think opening it up to anybody would be be a better way to introduce your magazine to new LF people, and possible get some more/new subscribers. Rather then limiting what people can see on your site, I would think you would want to be "The Place" where people go for LF information.

Just my thoughts. but I am glad to hear your putting up a new LF board.
If more people talk about LF, maybe more people will actually shoot LF.

orge's post above is a perfect exampleof why he will be banned fom the View Camera foum. He as alread asked that question about his prints and he has already been answered. The prints will go out this week. I know he saw my respopse becasue he made another caustic response.

The View Camera forum will be G ratd. Peoplewho come on and make ugly personal remarks will be banned. There is a huge difference between a professional level disagreement and a persnal attack. People who can't behave as if they know the difference will not be allowed to participate. People who can hve a discussion and keep it at a higher level will be welcome.


steve simmons

Now I've never subscribed to View Camera, because of the hopless subscription terms for us foreigners. As long as it ramins that way, I will not subscribe.

Do we need (yet) another LF forum?

In my opinion, we don't. Not at all. With APUG, LFinfo, PDN and F32, we have four good forums for anything LF.

A forum which sorts contributors based on subscription to a magazine practically unavailable outside of the USA has no value at all to me.

Sometimes the "discussion" breaks down to personal attacks, often because some people make remarks that someone else finds offensive. They then make another snide remark, which the first person finds offensive, and pretty soon the snowball starts rolling.

A forum where the discussion is open and lively is interesting, but there will always be strong opinions about some more controversial topics. Learn to live with it, and delete whatever goes over the limit. Even if someone is occasionally rude, doesn't mean that he/she has no useful contributions on other topics.

Even this thread is coming close to the take-off point...

If "this new group will not tolerate the type of behavior...", I'm afraid I'll have to counsel Mr. Simmons to exclude himself along with most of the rest of us...

Steve, you really open yourself up to this sort of stuff- it seems to follow you wherever you go lately.
My advice- just make the announcements, publish your books, and stop getting focussed on this other crap.
I want LF analog photography to survive.
Insofar as your activites help make that happen, kudos.
There will ALWAYS be people who disagree with you, or have comments or critisism on the published content.
Sometimes, some of them may have valid points. Some of them may be asses, it takes all kinds.

Respectfully, it is your method of responding at Defcon 5 to each little critisism or complaint on these forums that have you in the antagonistic mode where you find yourself today.

Do we need another LF website? Can't hurt! I'll check it out. Do I subcribe to your magazine? Yup. Do I like everything in it every issue? Nope. Some items are great, some of them suck. Could I do any better? Probably not. Would I respond to every critisism, whether it be intelligent and reasonable, or moronic and mean; as if someone had said something horrible about my mother? Would I repond at all? Probably not. It sure hasn't helped you any.

Your efforts to promote LF photography are commendable. I hope you would consider my advice on changing your tactics regarding these forums.

Matt

Dead Link Removed ..

OK, I'll respond to this. Up front, no insults or criticism intended to if anyone feels that they've been insulted, it's in your own head.......

I'm concerned about the idea of a moderated forum of the type Steve mentions. Usually forum moderators keep content restricted to subject matter relevance and eliminate only the most obusive stuff. Also, the respond to alerts from forum members to offensive postings. Other than that, they are pretty much hands off. They are NOT Forum Nazi's (to paraphrase Jerry Seinfeld). I'm concerned that is what they would become under Steve's description and that could become a problem. They'd be in the position of parsing (I never used that work until the Clinton Administration - and I'm still waiting for the opportunity to use the word 'recuse') all postings trying to figure out if someone was just insulted or not. The idea of 'tolerating' certain postings rubs me the wrong way - I believe in free speech and expression and that moderation should be done by the members of the forum. There few things as powerful as shunning - even the biggest,loudest shouters and screamers will give up if there is noone listening. Just provide the ability to add users to an 'exclude' list and that will take care of it.

As to subscriber-only admission, what would be the point? Are you going to be divulging super-double-secret information that only priviledged subscribres should receive because they pay you for the magazine? Is this a forum whose intention is openly discuss and disseminate information related to LF? I don't see these goals as complimentary. Because there are already several publicly open forums, maybe you should make it restricted to subscriber only. If it's open, I doubt there will be anything posted there that we won't read elsewhere anyway. Perhaps you could think of special things to attract your subscribers and maybe they would be great enough to get people to subscribe to your magazine just so they could get access to the forum.

Frankly, I think you should model it after Michael Smith's site. Open access with lots of links to stuff that you can sell and lots of free technical info in the area of LF, everything from equipment reviews and specs, formulas, testing results, etc. This would attract a lot of people and maybe help sell subscriptions. You might add a gallery and sell photographs\books too, something Photo-Eye books. How about selling used gear and maybe acting as escrow agent for a small fee? How about organizing large bulk purchases of hard to get film\paper\chemicals? Use the forum to attract people and have a marketplace to generate revenue.

Just don't turn it into some Forum Nazi place where 6 polite people can get together and talk about the good old days of Super-XX.

Just some thoughts......

-Mike

I think Steve was thinking out load and decided to send up a trial balloon to gage the interest/reaction. I feel most sides of the issue have been aired, so unless someone has something really original to say, lets leave it with Steve.

We don't need another LF Forum! Steve, despite the insults you have recieved, just be less sensitive an DON'T bother to reply. However, you also need to be a little open minded about some of the feedback you have recieved.