Vietnam War Cameras

CMoore · May 8, 2018

Paul Howell said:
I have few photographs.....
.....when in the Air Force all of our missions were and still are classified.

God has a wicked sense of humor sometimes.

You wonder what would be classified at this point.
Something that was blown up that they said was not.....some place they flew over that they said they never did.?

Theo Sulphate · May 8, 2018

CMoore said:
...
You wonder what would be classified at this point.
Something that was blown up that they said was not.....some place they flew over that they said they never did.?

Probably just bureaucratic inertia.

...and the UFO photos.

MattKing · May 9, 2018

I expect that de-classification is something that has to be done document by document, photograph by photograph.
They probably don't have the resources.

AgX · May 9, 2018

jtk said:
US Navy was issued Canon F1s with unique gray finish, many with Bell and Howell identities (therefore nominally "American").

Was there a regulation demanding acquiring only US products?

benjiboy · May 9, 2018

AgX said:
Was there a regulation demanding acquiring only US products?

I have never seen a grey U.S Navy Canon F1, however, there are many black U.S.N. Canon F1n's and New F1's.
https://www.antiquers.com/threads/us-navy-canon-f1-photo-cameras.1872/
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canonf1n/USnavy/index.htm.
I don't think there was any such regulation that you mention.
P.S. They also made an olive drab F1n http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canonf1/html/odf1.htm that was never sold outside Japan.

jtk · May 9, 2018

AgX said:
Was there a regulation demanding acquiring only US products?

No, but GSA contracts required priority for American products so some foreign manufacturers sent their products to the US for expensive shells with American names.

For example, Agfa Fotorite processors were far better (in my experience) than Kodak's Ektamatic as well as less expensive. Agfa sent their machines to the US where a wildly expensive stainless steel shell was installed, making the price of that modified machine mostly due to that shell (perhaps 60% more for the stainless). That allowed government contracts to buy the German machine. That's probably why Canon F1 wore an American brand.

AgX · May 9, 2018

Thank you, very informative on manufacturers veiling their products.

Paul Howell · May 9, 2018

jtk said:
No, but GSA contracts required priority for American products so some foreign manufacturers sent their products to the US for expensive shells with American names.

For example, Agfa Fotorite processors were far better (in my experience) than Kodak's Ektamatic as well as less expensive. Agfa sent their machines to the US where a wildly expensive stainless steel shell was installed, making the price of that modified machine mostly due to that shell (perhaps 60% more for the stainless). That allowed government contracts to buy the German machine. That's probably why Canon F1 wore an American brand.

It is true that at the time preference was given to American made products, but foreign products could be purchased if the product was field tested and demonstrated to be superior to the American counter part or if there were other compelling reasons. At the time the Army, Air Force and Marines used Nikon, the DOD knew that there were no pro level 35mm being made in the US. Canon and Bell & Howell had a long standing relationship, many entry level Canon Camera were marketed by Bell and Howell, Pentax had a similar relationship with Honeywell. It is my guess that at the time Japanese products were still thought of as cheap knock offs, having a trusted American Company or brand helped with sales.

Paul Howell · May 9, 2018

CMoore said:
God has a wicked sense of humor sometimes.

You wonder what would be classified at this point.
Something that was blown up that they said was not.....some place they flew over that they said they never did.?

When I looked into it, seems there is a set of rules for how long information, documents or images are classified. It was just 4 or 5 years ago that the documents that confirmed the existence of Air Force Lima sites in Laos. Lima sites were radar and navigation sites that guided Air Force plans into North Vietnam. The current rule is that information can be classified for up to 50 years, or longer if a review by the DOD or CIA indicates that the information is still sensitive. In conspiracy world there is a belief that documents are still classified that would revel that FDR knew that the Japanese would attack on 12/07/1941 and left the fleet in port in order to bring the US into the war.

Sirius Glass · May 9, 2018

MattKing said:
I expect that de-classification is something that has to be done document by document, photograph by photograph.
They probably don't have the resources.

I have had top secret clearances and accesses for over fifty years and hardly anything has seen the light of day. Nor do I ever expect to see any of the many endeavors ever be revealed, ever.

CMoore · May 9, 2018

Bletchley Park was declassified, the key people interviewed and filmed, and the whole mess made into documentaries and movies..... but the usa air force wont release photographs from Vietnam.?

Sirius Glass · May 9, 2018

CMoore said:
Bletchley Park was declassified, the key people interviewed and filmed, and the whole mess made into documentaries and movies..... but the usa air force wont release photographs from Vietnam.?

It goes to methods and protecting how the information is collected. Sometimes it could impact foreign relations.

Chan Tran · May 9, 2018

Funny that I grew up in the war. I was in Vietnam from when I was born 1955 to the end of the war 1975 and I rarely saw any of those cameras.

CMoore · May 9, 2018

That certainly gives you a unique perspective.
What part of the country were you in....most times.?

Dennis-B · May 9, 2018

AgX said:
Was there a regulation demanding acquiring only US products?

I know they did have Beseler Topcons at one time. Topcon ran ads in Pop Photo advertising as such.

In the late 70's when I was in the Naval Reserve, we went to Memphis NAS, for firefighting training. I was taking photos for our activities, and I used their lab to get our film and slides developed. The tech on duty showed me a box of parts from a shattered Topcon. Seems a Photographer's Mate was taking some overheads of the runway, and accidently dropped a motor-driven Super D from 4000 feet (Guess he forgot to tether the camera). The only recognizable parts were the film door, and the focus ring from the lens. They had to walk the runway to insure no parts were left to be sucked into a jet intake.

Paul Howell · May 9, 2018

Black Topcons marked U.S Navy are somewhat collectable, I have held and dry fired a few Topcons including a Navy version, seemed to me as well built as my Nikon F, metered was built into the body, waist level and sports finder were metered, unlike a Nikon F or F2. Later models had the option for a winder as well as drive. Lens lineup was decent, not as extensive as Nikon or Canon, but sufficient. Topcon has always made good glass. For a second body there was the RE which took a winder but not the drive. Don't why, Topcon just never really caught on to compete either Nikon or Canon.

faberryman · May 9, 2018

I had a friend in the early 1970s that had a Beseler Topcon camera. It worked fine. Lots of companies made cameras.

Chan Tran · May 9, 2018

CMoore said:
That certainly gives you a unique perspective.
What part of the country were you in....most times.?

I was born in Hue. In 1959 I moved to Saigon (Ho Chi Minh). In 1973 I joined the South Vietnam Air Force and during the 2 years I traveled all over southern Vietnam from Danang to Camau.

Sirius Glass · May 9, 2018

Dennis-B said:
I know they did have Beseler Topcons at one time. Topcon ran ads in Pop Photo advertising as such.

In the late 70's when I was in the Naval Reserve, we went to Memphis NAS, for firefighting training. I was taking photos for our activities, and I used their lab to get our film and slides developed. The tech on duty showed me a box of parts from a shattered Topcon. Seems a Photographer's Mate was taking some overheads of the runway, and accidently dropped a motor-driven Super D from 4000 feet (Guess he forgot to tether the camera). The only recognizable parts were the film door, and the focus ring from the lens. They had to walk the runway to insure no parts were left to be sucked into a jet intake.

FOD ==> Foreign Object Debris Something to worry about when building aircraft or flying aircraft.

Theo Sulphate · May 9, 2018

Paul Howell said:
... Lens lineup was decent, not as extensive as Nikon or Canon, but sufficient. ...

Topcon used the Exakta mount, so there should be a decent offering.

Chan Tran said:
I was born in Hue. In 1959 I moved to Saigon (Ho Chi Minh). In 1973 I joined the South Vietnam Air Force and during the 2 years I traveled all over southern Vietnam from Danang to Camau.

Nice!

Paul Howell · May 9, 2018

I don't recall all the lens Topcon offered, but I don't think they offered as many really long lens, perspective control, or as many fast lens as Nikon or Canon or for matter Minolta or Konica. For day to day shooting the line up would have been. Wonder if the Exakta mount became a problem, smallish throat may have complicated design of fast lens.

chip j · May 9, 2018

Exacta mount lenses are usually kinda pricey today.

MattKing · May 9, 2018

Chan Tran said:
I was born in Hue. In 1959 I moved to Saigon (Ho Chi Minh). In 1973 I joined the South Vietnam Air Force and during the 2 years I traveled all over southern Vietnam from Danang to Camau.

Thank you for participating on Photrio/APUG.
It must be strange for you to encounter all the US centric views of the Vietnam war,

mgb74 · May 10, 2018

jtk said:
No, but GSA contracts required priority for American products so some foreign manufacturers sent their products to the US for expensive shells with American names.

For example, Agfa Fotorite processors were far better (in my experience) than Kodak's Ektamatic as well as less expensive. Agfa sent their machines to the US where a wildly expensive stainless steel shell was installed, making the price of that modified machine mostly due to that shell (perhaps 60% more for the stainless). That allowed government contracts to buy the German machine. That's probably why Canon F1 wore an American brand.

There were also trademark and licensing issues. So Honeywell owned the US market and licensing for Spotmatics and Bell and Howell for Canon. Also, these deals originated in the early 60s, when our view of Japanese product quality vs. American product quality was almost 180 deg from today's. A Honeywell or Bell and Howell brand added to the image of the product. Of course this was more of a consumer focus.

mklw1954 · May 11, 2018

I attended an excellent presentation by some former Vietnam War photographers at the Bethel Woods Art Center, Monroe Gallery blog spot on 7/16/2010. Search for it, sorry I don't know how to paste a link using a tablet.

Vietnam War Cameras

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Vietnam War Cameras

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