Video in today's "Age" makes me less annoyed by Lomography...

amsp · Apr 17, 2012

CGW said:
Think you just confirmed my point. Let's see where we all stand at the end of 2012.

I really don't see how I did. So you think for example Plustek would release a medium format scanner in 2012 or Jobo releasing a new CPE if things were as dark as you portray them? Again, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

CGW · Apr 17, 2012

amsp said:
I really don't see how I did. So you think for example Plustek would release a medium format scanner in 2012 or Jobo releasing a new CPE if things were as dark as you portray them? Again, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Any news yet on pricing for the OpticFilm 120? The price point on the "new" Jobo was around $3200-3500 though I've not seen much beyond the early April second-hand press release. No fight about hybrid being key to any hope of slowing plummeting demand for film outside the home optical printers.

It's all about demand and there's no point denying it.

amsp · Apr 17, 2012

CGW said:
Any news yet on pricing for the OpticFilm 120? The price point on the "new" Jobo was around $3200-3500 though I've not seen much beyond the early April second-hand press release. No fight about hybrid being key to any hope of slowing plummeting demand for film outside the home optical printers.

It's all about demand and there's no point denying it.

The price floating around is said to be 1600$ / 1500 euro, and I agree hybrid is key which is why I find it funny that it can't be discussed on APUG. I think an even better example would be mechanical watches, pronounced dead and obsolete in the 70's & 80's with most of the old brands pretty much dead or struggling is now extremely popular again and most of the old brands have been revitalized or resurrected under new management. Sure, many people walk around with a cheap digital watch on their arm nowadays, it doesn't mean there can't be a thriving market for those who prefer something else. Funny enough the Swatch Group (those cheap ugly plastic battery watches) now own many of the higher-end mechanical brands. Maybe Sony will buy Kodak and revitalize the film industry

CGW · Apr 17, 2012

amsp said:
The price floating around is said to be 1600$ / 1500 euro, and I agree hybrid is key which is why I find it funny that it can't be discussed on APUG. I think an even better example would be mechanical watches, pronounced dead and obsolete in the 70's & 80's with most of the old brands pretty much dead or struggling is now extremely popular again and most of the old brands have been revitalized or resurrected under new management. Sure, many people walk around with a cheap digital watch on their arm nowadays, it doesn't mean there can't be a thriving market for those who prefer something else. Funny enough the Swatch Group (those cheap ugly plastic battery watches) now own many of the higher-end mechanical brands. Maybe Sony will buy Kodak and revitalize the film industry

Problem is, mechanical watches are now priced like Leicas.

I'm still thinking Fuji, given its film heritage, optical chops and skill at cooking sensors, will pop out a killer affordable scanner for all us broken-hearted suckers.

amsp · Apr 17, 2012

CGW said:
Problem is, mechanical watches are now priced like Leicas.

I'm still thinking Fuji, given its film heritage, optical chops and skill at cooking sensors, will pop out a killer affordable scanner for all us broken-hearted suckers.

That's not true, there are mechanical watches from a couple of hundred dollars and up, the luxury brands cost like Leicas yes. I think one of Kodak's biggest mistakes was to not release a range of high quality affordable scanners, even if it meant selling them at a loss. They seem to have embraced that concept when it comes to printers and ink, so why not film which was their bread & butter? Another mistake was to not promote film and what makes it stand out compared to digital vigorously, while at the same time making quality digital products for the ones that still wanted it (they did make high quality medium format sensors but exited that area too for some reason). It could have created a much healthier balance between the two mediums. Instead they decided to turn their back on what they do best and diversify into making crappy products that no one wanted. Even just looking at their website they look old and tired, and then compare it to lomo's or the impossible project's website. They need some new blood, fresh ideas and a serious makeover. Anyway, the plustek scanner looks like serious business and will hopefully fill the void Nikon left when they exited the market.

Colin D · Apr 17, 2012

CGW said:
This has already been beaten to death here recently. It amounts to a drop in an almost-empty, leaky bucket. Lomo shooters won't make any difference and won't turn the clock back for film.

No-one would be game enough to say that film will come back to dominate the photo market, that would be foolish. There is no doubt digital is here to stay and will command the majority of the market, however as amsp pointed out a revival of some sorts for film seems to be happening. A decade ago you could pick up a good quality film camera and lenses off fleabay for next to nothing because the digital excitement was growing, that certainly can't be said nowdays. Good quality and high end film cameras are actually appreciating in price and fetch a premium. Proof, I just sold all my Leica M gear which I only owned for three years for a healthy profit, and that has allowed me to get into LF .

In a curious unexpected consequence digital scanning has helped to keep film alive, you can still have the beauty of film and the convenience of a digital image. I asked my local pro lab operator about the demand for film or lack of it, he said it was healthy and they had no intention of getting out of it. The point about someone picking up the gap left by Kodak and Fuji if they completely fold is quite relevant, I would suspect that would come from China or maybe India.

While the plastic camera market might be a "drop" in the big scheme of things, at least it is something and without the actual figures its hard to say if the bucket is leaking or filling. I can say from knowledge though that there is a healthy demand for film with Australian university students doing arts or photography because they are forced to learn how to use a real camera, most will probably move into digital but some will continue with film I suspect because of its aesthetic value.

Leigh Youdale · Apr 18, 2012

I do the B&W developing of 35mm and 120 for a couple of local Camera shops. One of them still has his Fuji colour neg processor in daily use and does work for other around who have not replaced their old machines when they died, but he no longer does B&W.
My take on it all is a bit good news/bad news.

The good news is that Lomo et al have made it 'hip" and easy for young people to try using film. I presume a proportion of them will catch the bug but I wouldn't expect them to abandon digital either. I applaud this development and have stopped sneering at "plastic" toy cameras.

The bad news is that most of the films I see show signs of major lack of knowledge about exposure and even camera use. I usually try to insert a commentary sheet in the bag when I take the film back. Common faults are large numbers of blank frames and gross underexposure. I feel that the Art teachers who are running photography modules as part of their school curriculum know sweet FA about film, or don't even care what their students are doing. Community College courses are all about learning the basics of "your digital SLR" or even going on to an advanced course, but nothing for film users. The demand would be small, I know, but surely every six months a one-day session on using B&W film would help a lot of people who will otherwise give up.

LJH · Apr 18, 2012

CGW said:
Let's see where we all stand at the end of 2012.

Perhaps, rather than making these vacuous statements, you'll have the courage of your convictions and come out with a detailed prediction of where we "all stand at the end of 2012".

Where, specifically, do you think we'll be?

CGW · Apr 18, 2012

LJH said:
Perhaps, rather than making these vacuous statements, you'll have the courage of your convictions and come out with a detailed prediction of where we "all stand at the end of 2012".

Where, specifically, do you think we'll be?

Whether at the track or here, your guess is as good as mine--this makes us "co-vacuous," I guess. Still, you'd have to have a truly weak grasp of the obvious not to worry about:

Kodak's agony. MP film stock demand? Little or no film? Higher prices? A truly rudderless company.

Fuji's commitment to film. No more E6 materials or chemistry. Waning support for wet mini-labs and processing.

Lab survival. Scarce E6 processing. Thinning processing services. Dry print lines only.

Your turn?

vcyoo · May 6, 2012

helloo
I run the Lofico site and we target the exact market talked about in this thead here's my 2c from my experience over the past year or so
I would say the majority of young blood getting into Lomo loses interest within the first couple of months which is kind of expected. But then there is a bunch that will hang on for longer than that and continue moving on to other film related things (film slr, and other types of films). The actual Lomography guys do fairly well with marketing which continues to draw new blood into film.
There is still a big demand for general film (135 & 120) and also I feel there is even more demand for instant type related film (polaroid and fuji instax)
I think moving forward the market will continue to have demand for general film (basic) usage but a dwindling demand for more professional type usages (medium to large format, self development, etc) the reason being that there just isn't any sort of transition or drive/reason for young people to experiment and move beyond their basic film usage into those areas. There will continue to be declining support for film (e.g commercial) to compensate for this type of demand but in the end I think film will survive but become even more of a niche market.

Ross Chambers · May 8, 2012

The Sydney Morning Herald had a confused and confusing piece by Lynne Dwyer which attempted to conflate Lomo, the 2010 re-release of an "iconic" Polaroid (? Missed that one myself), toy cameras and the "retro" design of the Fuji X-100 digital rangefinder. I don't know why the Fuji, which produces very high quality pictures is included, but the liberal "funkies" and "retros" scattered throughout the article might be a clue; a functional rangefinder, film or digital, must appeal to the "hipsters."

Ross Chambers · May 8, 2012

Sorry, forgot the link:

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/art-and-design/the-return-of-the-prints-20120503-1xzy9.html

removed-user-1 · May 8, 2012

Ross Chambers said:
... the 2010 re-release of an "iconic" Polaroid (? Missed that one myself) ...

This is probably a reference to the "Polaroid" 300 which is just a re-badged Fuji Instax Mini. I would consider the SX-70 iconic; the 300? Not so much.

CGW · May 8, 2012

rthomas said:
This is probably a reference to the "Polaroid" 300 which is just a re-badged Fuji Instax Mini. I would consider the SX-70 iconic; the 300? Not so much.

Fuji was making "Polaroid" film in the brand's dying days.

Ross Chambers · May 9, 2012

That was possibly the camera I saw lined up at the Museum of Contemporary Art shop in Sydney with the very overpriced Holgas. The pictures it made were very small? I'm pretty sure it was badged Fuji.

Michael W · May 9, 2012

The Fuji Instax prints are about the size of a business card.

eddie · May 9, 2012

I fail to understand the disparaging of Holgas and Dianas. In the right hands, they can produce wonderful images.

vcyoo · May 12, 2012

polaroid 300 is a repackaged (and more expensive) fuji instax mini 7s
Fujifilm still make some polaroid film (eg fujifilm fp-100c)

tomtraubert · May 20, 2012

When I was growing up in a certain ex-socialist state, a Lomo Smena was the only thing I was able to afford. Little did I know that there will come a time (~30+ years later) when the same technology (or the lack there of) will be a hot topic of debate in the forums of the free West. At the risk of sounding like one of the Monty Python's four Yorkshiremen, "we used to dream of having a Nikon"! Now that I have two, sometimes I find myself looking at Lomo adverts on eBay. Ain't life funny?

Ross Chambers · May 21, 2012

Perhaps Miroslav Tichy longed for a Lomo in socialist Czechoslovakia? His pictures could not have been worse (IMHO).

Video in today's "Age" makes me less annoyed by Lomography...

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