Vibration-Durst 1200 with Ilford multigrade 500H

[Steelbar]

I have a Durst 1200 with Ilford multigrade 500H. If I place my hand on the lens or negative carrier I can feel a slight vibration. I am printing 4X5 negatives to 11X14 prints and they are not pin sharp. I do use a focus finder to make sure it is in focus on the easel. So I dismantled the 500H head and cleaned it out and lubricated the fan and it still has a slight vibration.
Questions
Can someone with the 500H let me know if their fan produces some vibration? Has anyone had this problem before?
Is there any suggestion on reducing the vibration? I have considered putting rubber washers between the fan and the head but not sure that will work. They may not fit. The head is in direct contact to the negative holder and I can't put a buffer between the two. I do have extra supports mounted to the wall.

The ultimate solution would be build a fan separate from the head, but I would prefer not to go that way.
Any ideas
Thanks
Bruce

 

[Ian Grant]

While not an Ilford head I have two fans on my De Vere 5108 enlargers Dichromat colour head. This type of fan can begin to wear which gives the vibration, usually they get noisier as well, it might be worth just replacing it, from memory they are fairly standard fans and relatively inexpensive. In the UK I have bought them from RS Components in the past, you just need to check the voltage etc which will be marked on the fan. I have two spare 12v cooling fans I took from some machinery somewhere and I know they run very smoothly and wouldn't cause vibration.

Checking prices a new fan should be about £20 ($33 Can) or less depending if AC or DC and the voltage, and they re quite readily available from various sources.

Ian

 

[paul_c5x4]

Not familiar with the fans used in the 500H head, but I did have vibrations on a CLS450 head. Took he fan out a couple of times to clean and lube the bearings to no avail. Eventually stripped the fan right down and had a real close look at it - Turns out someone in the past had reassembled it with a rubber bushing in the wrong place. Reassembled correctly, and vibration has been banished.

 

[Steelbar]

Ian
Thanks I did go to RS component but they had 1500 different fans. Who knew that there where that many fans. My problem is I don't know the voltage or type. I have now completely dismantelled the fan looking for some product number but no luck. I do have the repair drawings but they are no help, they have a number but it seems only to be an Ilford number and letters(Fa1)
I guess the question is, is there anyone out there that has found a fan that will fit and has replaced the fan?
Also does any one know the voltage of the fan so I can limit my search?

Thanks Ian you have got me a step closer.
Bruce

 

[MattKing]

Bruce:
Have you tried asking Ilford? They have a presence here - Harman Tech Service - and you could "Start a Conversation" with them on APUG.

 

[paul_c5x4]

Also does any one know the voltage of the fan so I can limit my search?

From: www.ilfordphoto.com/webfiles/2007321151751747.pdf

Cooling fan: 115Vac 21W dynamically balanced centrifugal type. The fan cools both lamp and filter assemblies.

 

[George Nova Scotia]

Bruce can you post some pictures of the fan if you still have it apart? You may have to find the motor rather than a complete assembly. Last time I went looking, I found a large GE motor PDF if there are any maker marks on the motor it would be a good place to start. Just to make it fun motors sometimes have a very strange way of denoting rotation.

 

[MattKing]

From: www.ilfordphoto.com/webfiles/2007321151751747.pdf

Who would have thought that the operating manual (specifications - near the end) would have the information when the service manual doesn't.

 

[Steelbar]

Who would have thought that the operating manual (specifications - near the end) would have the information when the service manual doesn't.

That was my thought exactly, Matt
Bruce

 

[Steelbar]

I have spent quite a bit of time looking for a match or close to a match but have not found what I need.Here are some pictures of the fan. It is two parts, a cover and the motor. I could not find any markings on the motor. The paddles are interesting that they are cupped and force the air out the side rather than the top or bottom.
George, Here are photos of the parts.

 

[Ian Grant]

It's a bit more out of the ordinary compared to the fans used by De Ve Vere etc. Probably your best bet is to contact Ilford/Harman Technical services. I think it would take a lot of time searching the internet for a match.

Ian

 

[Trond]

1a.jpg says it's a Papst fan, so you could try contacting them: http://www.ebmpapst.com/en/

Trond

 

[gorbas]

I just checked with my Ilford Head and there is very small vibration on it. When I got it I also wondered about effect on vibration for picture sharpens but eventually did not find any evidence to support it.
If your enlarger is in working condition, mark X or what ever with sharp needle on developed piece of film and use your best to make 11x14 enlargement of it. This test will tell you is there any effect of fan vibration on you print.

 

[DREW WILEY]

If you can't repair the fan, you can always disconnect the wiring to it and substitute and in-line duct fan.

 

[gorbas]

But, fan is not broken

 

[DREW WILEY]

Look at your projected image through a high quality grain magnifier and see if anything there jiggles. Unless the enlarger is built like a tank (some
Dursts are, but not this one), fan vibration is likely to cause a sharpness problem. You might be able to better brace the unit to stabilize this to a
degree. But if you place a fingernail against the housing and can actually feel vibration, it's not a good thing.

 

[Ian Grant]

But, fan is not broken

A fan will still keep going for quite a while when worn and causing vibration issues particularly if given help. It's not broken, it's just not functioning as it should

Ian

 

[gorbas]

With out proper test it's just guess

 

[George Nova Scotia]

The Papst RL901806/00 looks similar. Two versions with different bearings. If the divisions match might be a winner.

Edit:

It looks like most electronic suppliers carry papst fans here is one:
http://canada.newark.com/ebm-papst/rl90-18-00/ac-flat-pack-blower-121-x-37mm/dp/86K9771

and a data sheet to check dimensions:
http://img.ebmpapst.com/products/da...ENU.pdf?_ga=1.244835973.1484169566.1478308582

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I have a Durst 1200 with Ilford multigrade 500H. If I place my hand on the lens or negative carrier I can feel a slight vibration. I am printing 4X5 negatives to 11X14 prints and they are not pin sharp. I do use a focus finder to make sure it is in focus on the easel. So I dismantled the 500H head and cleaned it out and lubricated the fan and it still has a slight vibration.
Questions
Can someone with the 500H let me know if their fan produces some vibration? Has anyone had this problem before?
Is there any suggestion on reducing the vibration? I have considered putting rubber washers between the fan and the head but not sure that will work. They may not fit. The head is in direct contact to the negative holder and I can't put a buffer between the two. I do have extra supports mounted to the wall.

The ultimate solution would be build a fan separate from the head, but I would prefer not to go that way.
Any ideas
Thanks
Bruce

until recently,I had this 2st-clas enlarger and it is one of the best I've ever owned but, I made sure it was wall-mounted and the top of the column supported to the wall by a bracket. It had some vibration but none of it ever transferred to the projected image.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Here in earthquake country, bracing something takes on a whole new meaning.

 

[Leigh B]

Here in earthquake country, bracing something takes on a whole new meaning.

Since no location is shown in your profile, "here" is a somewhat meaningless term.

- Leigh

 

[DREW WILEY]

SF Bay Area. I live just a few blocks from the infamous Hayward Fault. But my property is underlain by granite, which is fairly rare around here,
so the shock waves pass quickly. Still, there are a lot of fragile things in any darkroom. And enlarger settings must remain predictable. Residential structural standards overall are vastly higher than in most of the country. If the rest of the country followed us, the fracking quake damage in Oklahoma or impact of hurricanes in FLA would be much less.

 

[Steelbar]

Thank you so much for all the help people have provided. A special thanks to George as you where able to provide what I think was the answer. I have ordered the fan that you pointed out and look forward to putting it in my Ilford head, it seems to be a perfect match.
Ian&Matt - I did contact Harman Tech Service and thank to Yvonne Hough for providing a repair person(Ross Tabacoff of R.T. Photo Repair in New Jersey Tel: # is 973 779 2846). It turned out I didn't need to contact him as George found the part I needed. I am glad that I have that contact for future reference.
Thanks Gorbas, Ralph and Drew - When I get the new fan I will use Drew's method to test for movement before I replace the fan and after. I have braced the enlarger already but by putting my hand gently on the enlarger lens I could certainly feel the vibration. You are right, without a proper test I can't be sure if it was effecting my images.
Leigh - Earth quakes have not been a problem so far but I have been known to shamelessly dance around my dark room while waiting for a long exposure time. That could have cause some shake.
Thanks again to all
Bruce

 

[MattKing]

Bruce:
Glad you were able to make progress.