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Viability of Stockpiling B&W Film with Recent Ilford News in Mind

ericdan

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Last time I wanted to work through all my frozen and refrigerated film before I buy more Kodak raised prices. then ilford doubled in price, now Fuji raises 20% and discontinues a bunch. Maybe it's worth storing more regardless of the bill or the laws of thermodynamics.
 

Sirius Glass

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Since the bulk of the frozen film is made up of emulsions that are no longer available, I do not burn through it rather I shoot it as I have a need for a now unobtainable film.
 

Ken Nadvornick

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What I don't understand is the repetitive claim that by stocking a freezer with still available film or paper I am hurting the film and paper manufacturer.

So based on their currently available press releases let's say I'm now worried that Harman's new bosses want to immediately discontinue Gallerie* to goose profits by cutting overhead. But they haven't yet discontinued it. So I buy 5,000 sheets and freeze it. Then I continue buying it at exactly the same frequency as before the mass purchase, except now I simply rotate my stock.

When I need another 100-sheet box I buy it new, stick that newest box at the bottom of the freezer stack, then remove the top box from the same stack, thaw it, and use that oldest box instead. Harman gains a short term bump in sales to me, but there is no post-bump sales decline from me.

The benefit to me is to continue to maintain a 5,000 sheet buffer against a future no-warning overnight product discontinuation. The price paid by me is the initial cost of the 5,000 sheets (which I would have eventually spent anyway), and to now always be using outdated (but well-preserved) paper. Given the new ownership uncertainties, that may be a risk/reward trade-off I'm willing to make.

How does that hurt Harman's overall sales?

Ken

* A speculative example NOT necessarily chosen at random by me...
 

zanxion72

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My freezer is cramped with film I love and is out of production. You can find anything from Panatomic and Verichrome to Technical Pan and XP1. Ilford's news good or bad won't change that. I continue buying fresh and expired films no matter what.
(same as GAS but for films).
 

Roger Cole

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Stockpiling current products while there is no known end in sight seems a bit premature. Better to invest the effort in more photography and darkroom time?

I agree with this. But I do cold store film because my usage has been sporadic.

I hope people continue to stockpile. APUG wouldn't be the same without threads about dots, blotches and patterns on peoples' frozen film.

I refrigerate all of my film I don't freeze and freeze a lot of it. I have NEVER had "dots, blotches and patterns" on any of it.
 

Roger Cole

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By that logic you would never be able to open your freezer and take anything out.

Sirius is right Eric. Your statement makes no sense. Why wouldn't you be able to open it and take something out? It DOES cost you a little more every time you open it though, because heat gets in (technically, though you could say the cold gets out and make more every day sense even if you were, physically, wrong.) Of course you can take things out. But when you do, some cold air escapes and warmer air gets in, and your freezer then expends more energy cooling that now-warmer air.
 

Roger Cole

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Probably true once stabilized and if you never opened it. But if you do open it, then the air exchange makes what Sirius says true.
 

Roger Cole

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In your example Ken it doesn't hurt Ilford. But I suspect most people do not do this. Instead they buy the 5000 sheets, or whatever quantity, and never buy any more and just use it. Once they run out, if whatever they bought is no longer made and if they do manage to use up all they bought, they just buy something else.

That WOULD hurt Ilford, or whoever, in terms of cash flow - a big bump now at the expense of smaller purchases over a longer period.
 

Poisson Du Jour

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Ken Nadvornick

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In your example Ken it doesn't hurt Ilford. But I suspect most people do not do this.

Then they are doing it wrong and they are only hurting themselves in the long run.

Ken
 

Roger Cole

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Not really hurting themselves. They secure a ready source of their preferred film, quicker availability than ordering more (assuming they are like many of us and have to order it) and avoid any future price increases even if it does remain available. But they arguably hurt the manufacturer and the reseller.

I laid in a supply of Provia 400X though I wish I could afford to get more while I maybe still can. But that was because it is going away.
 

removed account4

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Well that's good, but plenty of other people have issues. I guess future APUGers will find out years from now when people are going through their long expired frozen stashes of discontinued Ilford film and papers.

LOL

they are all doing all wrong !
 

alanrockwood

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Basic business principle: Revenue now is better than revenue later.

Premise: Film hoarding generates revenue now.

Conclusion: Hoarding by customers is good business for manufacturers.

Complication: Uneven revenue stream is generally not good for business.

Conclusion: Hoarding is probably good for business, but can complicate production schedules and business planning.

For all of you gun enthusiasts, look at the results of folks hoarding .22 caliber ammo. Their plants are running at full capacity trying to keep up with demand, and there is still a shortage of product at retail outlets. If you are in the business of manufacturing the product, what's to complain about?
 

georg16nik

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..., but lots of others who end up with frozen junk.

These same “lots of others” guys are having every other basic issue as well - shooting, processing, printing, so they are the usual complainers in every case.

Furthermore, most photographic materials in the recent decades are manufactured with long term cold storage in mind and if there are products with issues in this regard, then their manufacturers are required by the respective ISO standard, to explicitly inform their customers.
 

removed account4

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I didn't say that. There are people who apparently don't have problems, but lots of others who end up with frozen junk.


i know you didn't say it ( didn't say you did )
from what it seems, lots of people are doing EVERYTHING wrong
from hoarding + storing their film +paper, to exposing /processing and printing
its hard to believe they are still at it seeing they can't seem to figure any of it out.
 
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Richard S. (rich815)

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Viability of Stockpiling B&W Film with Recent Ilford News in Mind


Please! Reality!?

I agree, unfortunately.

Simon was an integral and prolific member of this site and not long ago I received a very nice PM from him discussing a certain aspect of my photography which I appreciated. For him to simply disappear is disconcerting at best, troubling at worst.

Sure he might not be here because of some kind of "gag order" agreement based on the buy-out agreement but then if so, why? Wouldn't you think he would have mentioned to the new owners as part of the buy-out that if their plan was to continue the business as-is how important a graceful and professional exit for him from here at APUG would be? Especially to prevent exactly what's happening? Even just him pretty much parroting the official press release and telling us nothing new would have been a bit more comforting and not to leave things to such mystery and spawning of all this speculation.

Seriously if all was good, if all was to be business-as-usual what would have been the downside to letting him post one last good bye? Unless of course it's a cut and run, big changes coming, and the new owners saw no value for him to do anything of the sort...and could not care any less what we think or speculate...
 

Sirius Glass

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