Very, very, very late to scanning.

PhilBurton · Apr 13, 2019

I am very, very, very late to start scanning, I know that. This post describes my situation. I have a series of questions about my scanning needs and I can’t decide between Silverfast and VueScan. Which one I should pick. I know there is a big price difference between Silverfast and Vuescan, but I have enough slides to scan, that other considerations may be more important. So I’m posting some questions, and identifying each as (Phil Burton question).

I wanted to post these questions on the Silverfast and VueScan forums, but when I do a password reset request on the Silverfast forum, I get some sort of error message. And there is no Vuescan user forum that I could find on the hamrick.com website.

I have a Nikon 5000 ED scanner with SF-210 batch feeder for my 35 mm materials. One other concern for me is that in addition to a very large number of 35 mm slides and negatives, I also have some 120/620 negatives and slides to scan. If I use Silverfast for all my 35 mm, I will probably use the manufacturer’s software that comes with whatever model Epson flatbed scanner I get.

My main goal with scanning software is the highest quality scanned images. I use Lightroom for my digital photos, and I want to maintain the same Lightroom workflow I use for my digital photos, but with as little dust spot and scratch removal as possible. I do sensor dust spot removal is done in Lightroom or sometimes in Photoshop.

I do not want to use scanning software for any image adjustments, except for dust and scratch removal, and possibly basic color correction, e.g. using daylight films under artificial lighting or fluorescent lighting.

I am very, very, very late to start scanning, I know that. (Life happens.) I have a series of questions about my scanning needs and I can’t decide between Silverfast and VueScan. I know there is a big price difference between Silverfast and Vuescan, but I have enough slides to scan, that other considerations may be more important. So I’m posting some questions, and identifying each as (Phil Burton question).

I wanted to post these questions on the Silverfast and VueScan forums, but when I do a password reset request on the Silverfast forum, I get some sort of error message. And there is no Vuescan user forum that I could find on the hamrick.com website.

I have a Nikon 5000 ED scanner with SF-210 batch feeder for all my 35 mm materials. I also have some 120/620 negatives and slides to scan. If I use Silverfast for all my 35 mm materials, I will probably use the manufacturer’s software that comes with whatever model Epson flatbed scanner I get.

My main goal with scanning software is the highest quality scanned images. I use Lightroom for my digital photos, and I want to maintain the same Lightroom workflow I use for my digital photos, but with as little dust spot and scratch removal as possible. I do sensor dust spot removal is done in Lightroom or sometimes in Photoshop.

I do not want to use scanning software for any image adjustments, except for dust and scratch removal, and possibly basic color correction, e.g. using daylight films under artificial lighting or fluorescent lighting.

Thanks in advance for reading and replying to my questions.

Phil Burton

chriscrawfordphoto · Apr 13, 2019

Phil,

Check out my tutorials website. I have a lot of free tutorials on film scanning with a Nikon scanner and Vuescan. A few months ago, my tutorials were featured in the Vuescan Newsletter!

There are also tutorials for Lightroom, Photoshop, digital printing.

http://crawfordphotoschool.com/digital/index.php

jim10219 · Apr 13, 2019

It probably doesn't matter in your case. Even the native scanning software might be fine for what you're wanting to do. I use Vuescan, and mainly because it allows me to control the ratio of RGB channels, do multipass scanning, and save huge file sizes that my native software wouldn't allow.

As for dust removal, that's a function of the scanner more than the software. Some scanners can scan an IR channel which passes through the dyes but picks up the dust. It then uses that information to subtract the dust from the dyes. I honestly rarely use it because it detracts from the quality of the scan and usually doing it by hand does a better job (though takes a lot longer).

Generally the best practice is to scan with as much information as you can get. That usually means rather than trying to correct colors, you're just trying to make sure that any colors don't get clipped. Then you use your editing software to correct the colors. You can set up programs like Vuescan or Silverfast to correct the colors during the scan, but that's not easy to do and it doesn't usually provide as good of results. But it can save time. The easy way is to use a plug-in in your editing software after you've scanned your images. That provides a good balance between quality, convenience, and speed. But nothing surpasses doing it by hand if you know what you're doing.

Scanning is equal parts science and art. Be prepared to spend months learning how to do it well. Everyone has their own method, so there's not one right way to do it. The trick to doing it well and doing it quickly is to have done it a bunch.

Ko.Fe. · Apr 13, 2019

It is very simple. Try both and choose one you like. But it is hard to realize it is the only way.

Adrian Bacon · Apr 14, 2019

PhilBurton said:
I am very, very, very late to start scanning, I know that. This post describes my situation. I have a series of questions about my scanning needs and I can’t decide between Silverfast and VueScan. Which one I should pick. I know there is a big price difference between Silverfast and Vuescan, but I have enough slides to scan, that other considerations may be more important. So I’m posting some questions, and identifying each as (Phil Burton question).

I wanted to post these questions on the Silverfast and VueScan forums, but when I do a password reset request on the Silverfast forum, I get some sort of error message. And there is no Vuescan user forum that I could find on the hamrick.com website.

I have a Nikon 5000 ED scanner with SF-210 batch feeder for my 35 mm materials. One other concern for me is that in addition to a very large number of 35 mm slides and negatives, I also have some 120/620 negatives and slides to scan. If I use Silverfast for all my 35 mm, I will probably use the manufacturer’s software that comes with whatever model Epson flatbed scanner I get.

My main goal with scanning software is the highest quality scanned images. I use Lightroom for my digital photos, and I want to maintain the same Lightroom workflow I use for my digital photos, but with as little dust spot and scratch removal as possible. I do sensor dust spot removal is done in Lightroom or sometimes in Photoshop.

I do not want to use scanning software for any image adjustments, except for dust and scratch removal, and possibly basic color correction, e.g. using daylight films under artificial lighting or fluorescent lighting.

I am very, very, very late to start scanning, I know that. (Life happens.) I have a series of questions about my scanning needs and I can’t decide between Silverfast and VueScan. I know there is a big price difference between Silverfast and Vuescan, but I have enough slides to scan, that other considerations may be more important. So I’m posting some questions, and identifying each as (Phil Burton question).

I wanted to post these questions on the Silverfast and VueScan forums, but when I do a password reset request on the Silverfast forum, I get some sort of error message. And there is no Vuescan user forum that I could find on the hamrick.com website.

I have a Nikon 5000 ED scanner with SF-210 batch feeder for all my 35 mm materials. I also have some 120/620 negatives and slides to scan. If I use Silverfast for all my 35 mm materials, I will probably use the manufacturer’s software that comes with whatever model Epson flatbed scanner I get.

My main goal with scanning software is the highest quality scanned images. I use Lightroom for my digital photos, and I want to maintain the same Lightroom workflow I use for my digital photos, but with as little dust spot and scratch removal as possible. I do sensor dust spot removal is done in Lightroom or sometimes in Photoshop.

I do not want to use scanning software for any image adjustments, except for dust and scratch removal, and possibly basic color correction, e.g. using daylight films under artificial lighting or fluorescent lighting.

Thanks in advance for reading and replying to my questions.

Phil Burton

I have a strong preference for Vuescan when I use a flatbed, but that's just me.

Kino · Apr 15, 2019

I'll just say that in your quest for information on scanning, you'll run into two basic types of people:

One that wishes to make the equivalent of a digital negative that captures all the information for LATER manipulation in software like Photoshop or Lightroom and the others who wish to adjust the scanner PRIOR to the actual scan to produce a finished image with little to no additional processing.

You'll need to decide which type you are AND keep this in mind when others give you advice, because the two workflows are really different and a lot of people give conflicting advice unknowingly.

EdSawyer · Apr 15, 2019

NIkonscan 4 is going to be better than either silverfast or vuescan, and it's free. It also can easily run on the latest version of WIndows if desired.

jtk · Apr 15, 2019

It's not an important decision.

You do want Digital Ice despite ignorance to the contrary.

Your scans will all want a little post processing.. scanners aren't human eyes.

PhilBurton · Apr 16, 2019

jim10219 said:
It probably doesn't matter in your case. Even the native scanning software might be fine for what you're wanting to do. I use Vuescan, and mainly because it allows me to control the ratio of RGB channels, do multipass scanning, and save huge file sizes that my native software wouldn't allow.

As for dust removal, that's a function of the scanner more than the software. Some scanners can scan an IR channel which passes through the dyes but picks up the dust. It then uses that information to subtract the dust from the dyes. I honestly rarely use it because it detracts from the quality of the scan and usually doing it by hand does a better job (though takes a lot longer).

Generally the best practice is to scan with as much information as you can get. That usually means rather than trying to correct colors, you're just trying to make sure that any colors don't get clipped. Then you use your editing software to correct the colors. You can set up programs like Vuescan or Silverfast to correct the colors during the scan, but that's not easy to do and it doesn't usually provide as good of results. But it can save time. The easy way is to use a plug-in in your editing software after you've scanned your images. That provides a good balance between quality, convenience, and speed. But nothing surpasses doing it by hand if you know what you're doing.

Scanning is equal parts science and art. Be prepared to spend months learning how to do it well. Everyone has their own method, so there's not one right way to do it. The trick to doing it well and doing it quickly is to have done it a bunch.

Thanks for these points. As I said, I'm just starting this process.

PhilBurton · Apr 16, 2019

Kino said:
I'll just say that in your quest for information on scanning, you'll run into two basic types of people:

One that wishes to make the equivalent of a digital negative that captures all the information for LATER manipulation in software like Photoshop or Lightroom and the others who wish to adjust the scanner PRIOR to the actual scan to produce a finished image with little to no additional processing.

You'll need to decide which type you are AND keep this in mind when others give you advice, because the two workflows are really different and a lot of people give conflicting advice unknowingly.

I am definitely the first kind of person.

PhilBurton · Apr 16, 2019

EdSawyer said:
NIkonscan 4 is going to be better than either silverfast or vuescan, and it's free. It also can easily run on the latest version of WIndows if desired.

I am pretty sure that I have a copy of Nikonscan around somewhere. I honestly hadn't thought of using it, although I know that there is a way to get Nikonscan to run under 64-bit Windows.

jtk · Apr 17, 2019

" If I use Silverfast for all my 35 mm materials, I will probably use the manufacturer’s software that comes with whatever model Epson flatbed scanner I get."

Don't buy into the ill-informed gossip about softness with Digital Ice in a Nikon scanner.

There reportedly are problems with Epson 600's Digital Ice implementation, but that's probably due to the cheapest Epson's engineering, not inherent in Digital Ice...it reportedly works better with Epson's most recent, higher priced model. .

Digital Ice DOES have problems with some versions of Kodachrome . That's not due to silver, it's due to Kodachrome's unique texture.

Nikon's implementation of Digital Ice works beautifully with silver film... you can see examples on my Media.

EdSawyer · Apr 17, 2019

Nikonscan 4 is still downloadable from Nikon themselves, also. I use the Nikon Digital ICE as well, it's great. It even does work on Kodachrome, on the Coolscan 9000 at least.

PhilBurton · Apr 18, 2019

jtk said:
It's not an important decision.

You do want Digital Ice despite ignorance to the contrary.

Your scans will all want a little post processing.. scanners aren't human eyes.

I'm not sure what you mean by "ignorance to the contrary." Can you repeat your response in different words.

Thank you,

Phil Burton

PhilBurton · Apr 18, 2019

EdSawyer said:
Nikonscan 4 is still downloadable from Nikon themselves, also. I use the Nikon Digital ICE as well, it's great. It even does work on Kodachrome, on the Coolscan 9000 at least.

Ok. Now I have to download the latest version and try it out along with Silverfast and Vuescan. You have made important points here.

Phil Burton

EdSawyer · Apr 18, 2019

glad to help, Phil

chriscrawfordphoto · Apr 18, 2019

PhilBurton said:
Ok. Now I have to download the latest version and try it out along with Silverfast and Vuescan. You have made important points here.

Phil Burton

Phil,

Keep in mind that Nikon Scan has not been updated in more than a decade. It will not work at all on modern Macs and its usability on modern Windows machines is spotty. Some users say it works fine on Windows 10, others had to jump through some hoops to make it work. Even on the systems Nikon Scan was designed for, it was slow, buggy, and often crashed in the middle of scans. The image quality it gave was wonderful, but the software really was garbage. I switched to Vuescan 20 yrs ago and never looked back.

PhilBurton · Apr 18, 2019

chriscrawfordphoto said:
Phil,

Keep in mind that Nikon Scan has not been updated in more than a decade. It will not work at all on modern Macs and its usability on modern Windows machines is spotty. Some users say it works fine on Windows 10, others had to jump through some hoops to make it work. Even on the systems Nikon Scan was designed for, it was slow, buggy, and often crashed in the middle of scans. The image quality it gave was wonderful, but the software really was garbage. I switched to Vuescan 20 yrs ago and never looked back.

Chris,

Thanks for the cautions. To be honest, I hadn't been thinking about NikonScan until several replies to my various questions mentioned the quality of scanned images. When I first got my scanner, I installed NikonScan on a Win XP system, and did just a few test scans. I already knew that I would have to do some work to get NikonScan run on Windows 10 Pro 64, but no one spoke about the crashes and bugs. I guess I'll try it and compare the results with Vuescan and Silverfast. Both of these programs include workflow features that are important to me. If NikonScan lacks these features, then I would use it only by exception.

Phil Burton

johnmuller32 · Jul 1, 2019

EdSawyer said:
NIkonscan 4 is going to be better than either silverfast or vuescan, and it's free. It also can easily run on the latest version of WIndows if desired.

NIkonscan 4 is good software. I have been using it for 8 months.

PhilBurton · Jul 1, 2019

johnmuller32 said:
NIkonscan 4 is good software. I have been using it for 8 months.

I'm curious as to why you say that, when all the other articles I read either don't mention Nikonscan or else say that Silverfast or Vuescan are better. Have you compared Nikonscan with either of these other packages?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, why only 8 months. Are you also very late to the scanning party, like me?

EdSawyer · Jul 1, 2019

Chris is simply wrong about Nikonscan. I run it perfectly fine on a modern/recent Mac (running high sierra) using BootCamp and a windows 10 partition. Installed just fine with one minor registry tweak. Hasn't crashed once yet, in over a year of regular usage (knock on wood). It's clearly better than vuescan or silverfast for what it does, and is the only way to get the best digital ICE from the scanner (coolscan 9000 in my case). Does anyone really think a 3rd party piece of software is going to be as well integrated and optimized as the one from the manufacturer? Not likely.

PhilBurton · Jul 2, 2019

+ Quote

EdSawyer said:
Chris is simply wrong about Nikonscan. I run it perfectly fine on a modern/recent Mac (running high sierra) using BootCamp and a windows 10 partition. Installed just fine with one minor registry tweak. Hasn't crashed once yet, in over a year of regular usage (knock on wood). It's clearly better than vuescan or silverfast for what it does, and is the only way to get the best digital ICE from the scanner (coolscan 9000 in my case). Does anyone really think a 3rd party piece of software is going to be as well integrated and optimized as the one from the manufacturer? Not likely.

Ed.

What is that registry tweak? Have you done side by side comparisions of Nikonscan with Vuescan and Silverfast? What you makes me think that I need to reconsider Nikonscan. I have a 5000 ED.

EdSawyer · Jul 2, 2019

http://www.shtengel.com/gleb/getting_nikon_coolscan_scanners_work_under_Win7.htm

you can form your own conclusions with nikonscan vs. the others, but IMNSHO the Nikon product is better.

PhilBurton · Jul 2, 2019

EdSawyer said:
http://www.shtengel.com/gleb/getting_nikon_coolscan_scanners_work_under_Win7.htm

you can form your own conclusions with nikonscan vs. the others, but IMNSHO the Nikon product is better.

Ed,

Thanks for the link. However, you still haven't explained why you prefer Nikonscan over the others. My only real experience with Nikon desktop software was Capture NX II, which has been completely surpassed by Adobe Lightroom (and probably other RAW editors, but I'm not sure). In my "day job" processional experience hardware companies don't produce great software, and software companies don't produce great hardware, so I would need to hear some specifics from you about why Nikonscan is better than the alternatives.

philipus · Jul 3, 2019

I used Nikon Scan with my Coolscans for several years but prefer Vuescan these days. Here's a write-up I did a few years ago which may help with the basic Vuescan settings.

Whichever software you pick be prepared 1) to go through a learning curve to arrive at as flat-looking scans as possible in order to keep as much image data in the TIFF as possible, and 2) learn how to post-process them.

Good luck
Philip

Very, very, very late to scanning.

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